Logbook instrument time

"Tom Sixkiller" wrote in message
...

"PA34 F-GFTF" wrote in message
...

How strange : in France, you log instrument time as long as you're
flying
IFR (that is, under an IFR flight plan), and whatever the meteo
conditions.
I thought it was ICAO rules, I'm supprised that it's different in US.

That's because some pilots that have a lot of _instrument time, have very
little real time in _instrument CONDITIONS_. You do know that there is a
really big difference between the two.

Correct. Here (in France), younger instrument-rated pilots may have scores
of Instrument hours, with very few in IMC.
Still, I expected you would fill your logbook with a clear-cut legal rule
(flying under IFR FPL), and not with a somewhat subjective estimation of
being IMC or not.

--
YAG

On Mon, 5 Jul 2004 01:29:36 +0200, "PA34 F-GFTF"
wrote:

not with a somewhat subjective estimation of
being IMC or not

Just to point out how different the logging rules for instrument are in the
US from what you describe to be the case in France, in the US the logging
rule for instrument flight has nothing to do with IFR or IMC. The rule is
the it is the "flight time when the person operates the aircraft solely by
reference to instruments under actual or simulated instrument flight
conditions".

In the US, IMC simply means weather that is less than VMC. And VMC weather
differs in different airspaces.

One can log instrument flight time in VFR conditions with no safety pilot.
The typical example given is flying on a moonless night over water (or over
the desert). Instruments are required to operate the aircraft in that
circumstance.

More typically, instrument time under VFR is acquired with the pilot using
a view limiting device, and a safety pilot in another control seat.

On the other hand, one can be on an IFR flight plan in weather conditions
which do not require the use of instruments, and in that case instrument
flight time would not be loggable.

It seems to me that since the purpose of logging instrument time, at least
in the US, is to document experience in flying by reference to instruments,
that our rules make more sense than having the logging depend solely on the
type of flight plan followed.

Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

Still, I expected you would fill your logbook with a clear-cut legal rule
(flying under IFR FPL), and not with a somewhat subjective estimation of
being IMC or not.


Nothing in aviation is clear cut. But the time is logged as what is most
meaningful. IMC is more meaningful than IFR.

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

"PA34 F-GFTF" wrote in message
...

"Tom Sixkiller" wrote in message
...

"PA34 F-GFTF" wrote in message
...

How strange : in France, you log instrument time as long as you're
flying
IFR (that is, under an IFR flight plan), and whatever the meteo
conditions.
I thought it was ICAO rules, I'm supprised that it's different in US.

That's because some pilots that have a lot of _instrument time, have
very
little real time in _instrument CONDITIONS_. You do know that there is a
really big difference between the two.

Correct. Here (in France), younger instrument-rated pilots may have scores
of Instrument hours, with very few in IMC.

Quite...even some more experienced pilots.

Out in the American West, "where skies are not clouldy all day", you can
have some like me with 660 or so hours IFR, but only about 45 in IMC.

Still, I expected you would fill your logbook with a clear-cut legal rule
(flying under IFR FPL), and not with a somewhat subjective estimation of
being IMC or not.

We log both Instrument Time and Actual IMC time. The latter is a subset of
the former.

In article , "Tom Sixkiller"
writes:

Still, I expected you would fill your logbook with a clear-cut legal rule
(flying under IFR FPL), and not with a somewhat subjective estimation of
being IMC or not.

We log both Instrument Time and Actual IMC time. The latter is a subset of
the former.


We do???

My log book has actual and simulated instrument conditions of flight columns.
I have never recorded time on an IFR plan while in VMC. I don't see IFR flight
plan info of any value if I am in VMC. I sometimes do it for practice but
since I installed the Garmin 330, I don't use IFR plan for "flight following"
seperation as often.

Chuck

"PaulaJay1" wrote in message
...
In article , "Tom Sixkiller"
writes:

Still, I expected you would fill your logbook with a clear-cut legal rule
(flying under IFR FPL), and not with a somewhat subjective estimation
of
being IMC or not.

We log both Instrument Time and Actual IMC time. The latter is a subset
of
the former.


We do???

My log book has actual and simulated instrument conditions of flight
columns.

Sounds like the same thing to me.

Tom Sixkiller wrote:

We log both Instrument Time and Actual IMC time. The latter is a subset
of
the former.


We do???

My log book has actual and simulated instrument conditions of flight
columns.

Sounds like the same thing to me.

Not unless I've misunderstood too. What we do not log is "intrument time"
as defined by "on an IFR flight plan". That's how I interpreted "intrument
time" given the context (ie. in contrast to "actual IMC time"). It is
ambiguous, of course, so that's just how *I* read it.

What I do to make up for this - should I ever care to know my "IFR time" -
is note in the comments when a flight is IFR. I started doing this because
my first flight after the rating was a perfectly beautiful VMC day, but I
was damned well going to use my new rating by filing grin. I made note
of the flight planned nature of the flight then, and have just continued
doing so when appropriate.

Today, though, I got to get wet...my first time doing so in a 182.

- Andrew

Andrew Gideon wrote in message gonline.com...

Today, though, I got to get wet...my first time doing so in a 182.

That's the problem with those Cessna air vents.

I have never recorded time on an IFR plan while in VMC.

The OP is not from the US. The regs on logging are different.

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)