Busted TFR, what to expect?

Bob Fry wrote:

snip
Maybe they could reserve a frequency just to broadcast important area
NOTAMs. Pilots would get in the habit of checking it before takeoff
and during flight.

If a pilot cannot get in the habit of checking NOTAMs and TFRs before local
VFR flights using the current methods, what makes you think these same
pilots would get in the habit of checking a frequency for them?

--
Peter

My student was flying that day too. I didn't get an email from AOPA and
there was nothing in the paper. However the ATIS (SAC) reported the
airport was closed.

Bob Fry wrote:
"JD" == John Doe writes:

JD I had my first experience with a VIP TFR last weekend. Bush
JD was in town and I had gotten an email from AOPA notifying me
JD of the TFR in my area.

Bush was in Sacto a few weeks ago and I too got the AOPA notification
by email. Because of that, and checking the extent of that TFR, I
decided not to risk it and simply didn't fly that weekend.

But for the TFR I violated, I didn't get a notice from AOPA. Why, I'm
not sure. And the local newspaper had nothing about Cheney's visit
until afterwards so I didn't know he was in town.

JD Luckily, I've learned to check NOTAMS prior to every flight,
JD and following the procedures, the TFR didn't delay me at all
JD in getting on my way.

I rarely check NOTAMS or get a briefing for local VFR flights, and
quite honestly I doubt I'll change my habits. The FAA should
recognize that using NOTAMs alone are not enough. Maybe they should
take email addresses and locations from pilots (kinda like AOPA) and
send notices when a TFR is going to pop up in a given area.

Maybe they could reserve a frequency just to broadcast important area
NOTAMs. Pilots would get in the habit of checking it before takeoff
and during flight. Maybe area NOTAMs could be added on to AWOS
broadcasts. Something?

Why do you say that using NOTAMs alone aren't enough?

How would the FAA know where I am going to be flying so they can notify
me by email of any applicable NOTAMs?

You say that pilots would get in the habit of checking spoken NOTAMs
before each flight... how is that different from checking them online or
by a call to flight service if going online isn't feasible?

-jav

I've had AOPA miss a few TFR notifications. Many times the VIP schedule
changes too quickly for AOPA reaction and sometimes TFR NOTAMS arrive after
the VIP.

BT

"Bob Fry" wrote in message
...
"JD" == John Doe writes:

JD I had my first experience with a VIP TFR last weekend. Bush
JD was in town and I had gotten an email from AOPA notifying me
JD of the TFR in my area.

Bush was in Sacto a few weeks ago and I too got the AOPA notification
by email. Because of that, and checking the extent of that TFR, I
decided not to risk it and simply didn't fly that weekend.

But for the TFR I violated, I didn't get a notice from AOPA. Why, I'm
not sure. And the local newspaper had nothing about Cheney's visit
until afterwards so I didn't know he was in town.

JD Luckily, I've learned to check NOTAMS prior to every flight,
JD and following the procedures, the TFR didn't delay me at all
JD in getting on my way.

I rarely check NOTAMS or get a briefing for local VFR flights, and
quite honestly I doubt I'll change my habits. The FAA should
recognize that using NOTAMs alone are not enough. Maybe they should
take email addresses and locations from pilots (kinda like AOPA) and
send notices when a TFR is going to pop up in a given area.

Maybe they could reserve a frequency just to broadcast important area
NOTAMs. Pilots would get in the habit of checking it before takeoff
and during flight. Maybe area NOTAMs could be added on to AWOS
broadcasts. Something?

"Bob Fry" wrote

Maybe they could reserve a frequency just to broadcast important area
NOTAMs. Pilots would get in the habit of checking it before takeoff
and during flight. Maybe area NOTAMs could be added on to AWOS
broadcasts. Something?

I've often wondered why they do not use AWOS. It would take all of 5 or 10
seconds to announce a NOTAM, or at least tell of one's existence.

Yes, checking before departure is a "good thing" but there are always
NOTAM's that pop up while you are in the air.
--
Jim in NC

No one around to update the AWOS. That happens only once in a great
while. The weather part of the AWOS is talked automatically by machine,
so no one HAS to be there to update it. The "other" part of AWOS is
usually updated by someone like the airport manager, who doesn't want
to mess with it except every few months.

"Morgans" wrote in message
...
I've often wondered why they do not use AWOS. It would take all of 5 or
10 seconds to announce a NOTAM, or at least tell of one's existence.

It would take well over 10 seconds to describe just one NOTAM of any
complexity, never mind all of the NOTAMs that might be applicable to a
flight within radio range of the AWOS. And noting a NOTAM's existence
without describing it isn't useful...there are always NOTAMs.

Yes, checking before departure is a "good thing" but there are always
NOTAM's that pop up while you are in the air.

That possibility does always exist, yes. But it's a relatively infrequent
occurrence. Nearly all of the time, a NOTAM that might become effective
during the flight is published prior to the commencement of the flight, even
if only by hours.

But even if NOTAMs appearing after one departs but becoming effective prior
to one landing was anything other than the very remote possibility it is
now, there's no practical way to disseminate all applicable NOTAMs via
frequencies already in use, such as AWOS, ATIS, automated UNICOMs, or ATC
frequencies.

Pete

"Peter Duniho" wrote

But even if NOTAMs appearing after one departs but becoming effective
prior to one landing was anything other than the very remote possibility
it is now, there's no practical way to disseminate all applicable NOTAMs
via frequencies already in use, such as AWOS, ATIS, automated UNICOMs, or
ATC frequencies.

I was thinking of something along the lines of a quick description, such as
" --- centered on ---" then, "tune to blah blah blah for further
information."

If you had already done your homework, then the quick description would tell
you already knew about it, then you could ignore the tuning somewhere else
part. If it was something new that you were not aware of, then you could
check it out.

Just another idea. It does seem like some people do their best to find out,
but due to delays, or time to get to the airport, or pop ups, they still get
caught.

Granted, it is a much higher percentage of busted notices, because of total
failure to attempt to get the information.
--
Jim in NC

well.....just food for thought all of the major cell phone carriers sell a
program that can be downloaded to many phones that has TFR's as well as full
weather its called Pilot My-cast

https://secure.my-cast.com/pilot.jsp

Dave Zera
Co-Chariman
Safety / Flight Line
AirVenture 2006

"Bob Fry" wrote in message
...
"JD" == John Doe writes:

JD I had my first experience with a VIP TFR last weekend. Bush
JD was in town and I had gotten an email from AOPA notifying me
JD of the TFR in my area.

Bush was in Sacto a few weeks ago and I too got the AOPA notification
by email. Because of that, and checking the extent of that TFR, I
decided not to risk it and simply didn't fly that weekend.

But for the TFR I violated, I didn't get a notice from AOPA. Why, I'm
not sure. And the local newspaper had nothing about Cheney's visit
until afterwards so I didn't know he was in town.

JD Luckily, I've learned to check NOTAMS prior to every flight,
JD and following the procedures, the TFR didn't delay me at all
JD in getting on my way.

I rarely check NOTAMS or get a briefing for local VFR flights, and
quite honestly I doubt I'll change my habits. The FAA should
recognize that using NOTAMs alone are not enough. Maybe they should
take email addresses and locations from pilots (kinda like AOPA) and
send notices when a TFR is going to pop up in a given area.

Maybe they could reserve a frequency just to broadcast important area
NOTAMs. Pilots would get in the habit of checking it before takeoff
and during flight. Maybe area NOTAMs could be added on to AWOS
broadcasts. Something?

David J. Zera wrote:
well.....just food for thought all of the major cell phone carriers sell a
program that can be downloaded to many phones that has TFR's as well as full
weather its called Pilot My-cast

https://secure.my-cast.com/pilot.jsp


Looks pretty good except it works for every phone known to man except the one I
JUST got two weeks ago. I'n stuck with it for two years, too.

Damn.




--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

VE