New Naval Air Station to be built at Bugtussle, Alabama?

SNIP
There's still Cheerless Pit, but I suspect the Marines STILL don't want
the Navy invading and corrupting "their" turf...


Probably the most viable, but there are wildlife sanctuary issues IIRC.

Meridian? Consolidate all the training at Kingsville, and give Meridian
to the fleet!

Great training base, good for a reserve squadron or two. Location sucks for
fleet for numerous reasons.
Kingsville is similar, although it has access to a warning area.

Maybe there's a stray Air Force base or 2 that is up for closing, but
would really rather have the Navy than nothing...

They looked at that. Nuthin'!

R / John

On Thu, 25 May 2006 06:57:43 -0500, "John Carrier"
wrote:

Great training base, good for a reserve squadron or two. Location sucks for
fleet for numerous reasons.
Kingsville is similar, although it has access to a warning area.

What should have happened 15 years ago was to close Meridian and
retain Chase. I spent a total of 11 years at Chase as a student then
IP and later as a contract SIM instructor.

Chase was the smallest of the three jet training bases, so had the
lowest facility maintenance costs. Throughout the 70's it had the best
PTR (Pilot Training Rate) - just about 1/2 the time Meridian took to
train a pilot. 10 months average verses 18 months. Kingsville was
averaging 12-13 months then. Even in the 80's the ratios didn't change
much. So why did they close the most efficient base?

One word: Stennis.

BRAC never has been even remotely independent.

John

"John" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 25 May 2006 06:57:43 -0500, "John Carrier"
wrote:

Great training base, good for a reserve squadron or two. Location sucks
for
fleet for numerous reasons.
Kingsville is similar, although it has access to a warning area.

What should have happened 15 years ago was to close Meridian and
retain Chase. I spent a total of 11 years at Chase as a student then
IP and later as a contract SIM instructor.

Opinions vary.

Chase was the smallest of the three jet training bases, so had the
lowest facility maintenance costs. Throughout the 70's it had the best
PTR (Pilot Training Rate) - just about 1/2 the time Meridian took to
train a pilot. 10 months average verses 18 months. Kingsville was
averaging 12-13 months then. Even in the 80's the ratios didn't change
much. So why did they close the most efficient base?

One word: Stennis.

BRAC never has been even remotely independent.

Stennis was not a factor. His influence had waned by 1991. Chases
facilities were also in the poorest state of material condition (as related
by T-45 site survey) and would have cost more to upgrade for the new
training system.

I think your time-to-train numbers are suspect. Each trawing coould cherry
pick data (or just plain manipulate it) to demonsltrate "it's best." A
number of factors contribute to production capability. Neither Chase, NASK
nor NASM facilities had/have any particular inherent goodness that would
make them superior.

R / John

On Fri, 26 May 2006 13:03:47 -0500, "John Carrier"
wrote:


Stennis was not a factor. His influence had waned by 1991.

As I know a number of people who were directly involved (Beevile,
Meridian and CNATRA) with this event, I would have to disagree.
Stennis's influence has been cited to me by everyone I know to have
been a major factor in the decision. His star may have been on the
decline, but it was good enough.

Chases
facilities were also in the poorest state of material condition (as related
by T-45 site survey) and would have cost more to upgrade for the new
training system.

Possibly - VT-24, VT-25 and TW3 hangars were nothing to write home
about, but the rest of the base, when I left in 88 was in exceptional
shape. It's only real limitation was that there was no room for any
growth.


I think your time-to-train numbers are suspect. Each trawing coould cherry
pick data (or just plain manipulate it) to demonsltrate "it's best."

Hardly. Student arrives on X date, gets wings on Y date. Pretty easy
math. From 74-76 I was in Training and Ops with VT-24 and saw the
numbers monthly. In the mid 80's while a reservist I was in a CNATRA
unit and the numbers were pretty much the same, though Meridian had
improved some due to their permanent DET. Meridian weather sucked most
of the year. I flew with VT-24 from 74 to 79 and we got Meridian
transfers every single year just so they could finish training in a
reasonable time. It got so bad that Meridian developed a permanent
detachement in AZ in the early 80's just so they could do Weapons,
Low-level NAV and ACM training. In the late 70's CNATRA even
considered re-activating south field at Kingsville and moving all the
Meridian training there. The permanent DET was considered to be a much
cheaper option. Kingsville is closer to the coast than Chase and was
affected by coastal weather more often, but overall, did not have a
significantly increased time-to-train.

John