Nothing good about Ethanol

The bottom line is that at the moment producing Ethanol from corn
wastes more energy than it makes according to experts.



Well, use some rational thinking... We grow corn to make alcohol...

What does the tractor that plowed and planted the field burn? diesel
mostly

What do the fertilizer and pesticides put on the field come from?
petroleum base

What does the combine that harvests the field burn? gas or diesel

What does the truck that takes the corn to the local elevator burn?
diesel or gas

What does the train that moves the corn to market burn? diesel

What does the electric motor(s) at the alcohol plant get the current
from - and ditto the lights, air conditioners, furnaces, etc? (natural
gas mostly)

What do the employees at the alcohol plant burn to get there for work
each day? gas mostly

Where does the heat to distill the mash come from? natural gas

What does the truck burn to take the alcohol to the gasoline terminal?
diesel

************************************************** ***********************************************
Where the oil company cheerfully puts 5% of that 70 cents a gallon
alcohol at their cost into the gasoline and charges you three bucks or
so for each gallon of alcohol they sell you - a vastly bigger profit
margin than they get on the gasoline... Plus, the alcohol decreases
your gas mileage so you have to buy fuel more often... Jeez, if you
are an oil executive on a pay plus bonus salary, what's not to like
??????
************************************************** **************************************************

Anyway, those of you who favor alcohol explain to me how burning
alcohol reduces oil imports...

denny

"Denny" wrote:

The bottom line is that at the moment producing Ethanol from corn
wastes more energy than it makes according to experts.



Well, use some rational thinking... We grow corn to make alcohol...

What does the tractor that plowed and planted the field burn? diesel
mostly

What do the fertilizer and pesticides put on the field come from?
petroleum base

What does the combine that harvests the field burn? gas or diesel

What does the truck that takes the corn to the local elevator burn?
diesel or gas

What does the train that moves the corn to market burn? diesel

What does the electric motor(s) at the alcohol plant get the current
from - and ditto the lights, air conditioners, furnaces, etc? (natural
gas mostly)

What do the employees at the alcohol plant burn to get there for work
each day? gas mostly

Where does the heat to distill the mash come from? natural gas

What does the truck burn to take the alcohol to the gasoline terminal?
diesel

Those kinds of questions also apply to the exploration for and extraction of
oil, the transportation and refining of crude, and the transportaton of
gasoline. It takes energy to make energy; this is not news. Also, gasoline
has enormous hidden costs related to our (U. S.) international efforts,
military and otherwise, to maintain the security of imported oil sources.

The question is: what are the real figures on energy margin recovery for
ethanol? I can find a lot of hand-waving pro and con, but I'm having
trouble locating any scientific/economic study that seems objective and
trustworthy.

[snip]

Anyway, those of you who favor alcohol explain to me how burning
alcohol reduces oil imports...

Amen.

--
Dan

'Gut feeling'

Intestinologists concur that the human gut does not contain any rational
thoughts.

What the human gut *is* full of is moderately well known.

In article ,
"Dan Luke" wrote:


Those kinds of questions also apply to the exploration for and extraction of
oil, the transportation and refining of crude, and the transportaton of
gasoline. It takes energy to make energy; this is not news. Also, gasoline
has enormous hidden costs related to our (U. S.) international efforts,
military and otherwise, to maintain the security of imported oil sources.

The same military is used to protect the land and people who would
grow corn for ethanol.

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate

"Bob Noel" wrote:

"Dan Luke" wrote:


Those kinds of questions also apply to the exploration for and extraction
of
oil, the transportation and refining of crude, and the transportaton of
gasoline. It takes energy to make energy; this is not news. Also,
gasoline
has enormous hidden costs related to our (U. S.) international efforts,
military and otherwise, to maintain the security of imported oil sources.

The same military is used to protect the land and people who would
grow corn for ethanol.

....and everything else *at home*. But how much extra expense do we entail
because we must protect our foreign oil supply?

I seriously doubt we would be at war with terrorism instigated mostly by
Arabs if imported oil were not a vital national interest that has required a
military presence in the Middle East for decades. The cost of Homeland
Security and the campaigns in Iraq and Afghanistan should count in the price
of gasoline, IMO.

--
Dan
C-172RG at BFM

Dan Luke wrote:

"Bob Noel" wrote:

"Dan Luke" wrote:


Those kinds of questions also apply to the exploration for and extraction
of
oil, the transportation and refining of crude, and the transportaton of
gasoline. It takes energy to make energy; this is not news. Also,
gasoline
has enormous hidden costs related to our (U. S.) international efforts,
military and otherwise, to maintain the security of imported oil sources.

The same military is used to protect the land and people who would
grow corn for ethanol.

...and everything else *at home*. But how much extra expense do we entail
because we must protect our foreign oil supply?

I seriously doubt we would be at war with terrorism instigated mostly by
Arabs if imported oil were not a vital national interest that has required a
military presence in the Middle East for decades. The cost of Homeland
Security and the campaigns in Iraq and Afghanistan should count in the price
of gasoline, IMO.

--
Dan
C-172RG at BFM

Yeah, that World Trade Center thing is not worth getting excited about...

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

Jim, buddy, you're a nice guy, but for the love of Orville, can you please
snip for those of us on limited bandwidth?

Jim


wrote in message
...
Dan Luke wrote:

"Bob Noel" wrote:

"Dan Luke" wrote:


Those kinds of questions also apply to the exploration for and
extraction
of
\
The cost of Homeland
Security and the campaigns in Iraq and Afghanistan should count in the
price
of gasoline, IMO.

--
Dan
C-172RG at BFM

Yeah, that World Trade Center thing is not worth getting excited about...

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

June g

Montblack

("RST Engineering" wrote)
Jim, buddy, you're a nice guy, but for the love of Orville, can you please
snip for those of us on limited bandwidth?

RST Engineering wrote:
Jim, buddy, you're a nice guy, but for the love of Orville, can you please
snip for those of us on limited bandwidth?

Jim

snip

Geez Jim, the whole thing was only 37 lines long; are you using a
wood burning modem?

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

wrote:

I seriously doubt we would be at war with terrorism instigated mostly by
Arabs if imported oil were not a vital national interest that has required
a
military presence in the Middle East for decades. The cost of Homeland
Security and the campaigns in Iraq and Afghanistan should count in the
price
of gasoline, IMO.

--
Dan
C-172RG at BFM

Yeah, that World Trade Center thing is not worth getting excited about...

Huh??

Dan Luke wrote:

wrote:

I seriously doubt we would be at war with terrorism instigated mostly by
Arabs if imported oil were not a vital national interest that has required
a
military presence in the Middle East for decades. The cost of Homeland
Security and the campaigns in Iraq and Afghanistan should count in the
price
of gasoline, IMO.

--
Dan
C-172RG at BFM

Yeah, that World Trade Center thing is not worth getting excited about...

Huh??

Do I really have to explain this?

The US military presence in the Middle East was tiny until the invasion
of Kuwait (1990). The post Gulf War presence was larger than before,
but still small until 9/11.

Homeland Security and the invasion of Afghanistan were direct results
of 9/11.

As for Iraq, if 9/11 hadn't happened, Saddam would probably still be
in power.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.