What to do about North Korea...?

In article ,
Jose wrote:

It seems to me that our response to the 9-11
vandals

"vandals"???

That is simply the dumbest characterization of the low-life scum
that I've ever heard. You make Mikey look like a genius.

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate

"Jose" wrote in message
.com...
that our response to the 9-11 vandals has created or at least amplified a
lot of the anti-US

"Vandals"?

Jose wrote:

But the islamo-facist scenario is more profound, longer lasting, and
insidious. There are, what, a billion+ followers of Islam, the large
majority of which don't much care for what they think Western culture
is. There are probably many hundreds of thousands who would eagerly
take up arms against us, and many thousands who would volunteer to die
against the "crusaders and jews".


The widespread (though perhaps not strongly felt) Arab support for the
first invasion, after the little Kuwait incident, argues against this
rather bigoted position. It seems to me that our response to the 9-11
vandals has created or at least amplified a lot of the anti-US
sentiment, and made it far more difficult to mitigate that sentiment in
the next fifty years.

We get stung by a wasp.
In retalliation, we find a hornet nest and beat it to a pulp, with
predictable results, while shouting "Bad bees, bad bees!"

I've been stung by a wasp and the sting was gone a few days later. I
don't recall having to go to any funerals for it, as I did after 9/11.
And so many others did as well. I've had to clean up vandalism from my
store. While a pain and an insurance hassle, that doesn't matter a damn
compared to burying someone you love. Too bad you can equate the two so
easily. Have a nice day.

In article , Bob Fry
wrote:

JH While the world's attention has been diverted to Iraq and
JH Gaza, I think the real nightmare scenario is developing in
JH North Korea.

Hmmmmm.....no. N. Korea is an isolated society controlled by a few
kooks without a cause that inspires followers. True, the worst case
is they shoot a couple of nukes off, let's say one in Asia, another to
the US...followed with massive retaliation by the US.

While it is true that N. Korea is probably not our biggest nightmare
in the long term, they still present a very real near term threat.

A much more
likely scenario is they keep making threats until we can get some
practical people in the White House, replacing the current idelogues,
who will actually talk to the kooks and see what they really want (my
guess is some assurance they won't be invaded).

Don't make the mistake of assuming that others are operating by
roughly the same motivations as us. Sometimes diplomacy will
work, but it requires that the other side is actually interested in
peace.

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate

"Bob Noel" wrote:


Don't make the mistake of assuming that others are operating by
roughly the same motivations as us. Sometimes diplomacy will
work, but it requires that the other side is actually interested in
peace.

And that the other side's leadership is even rational. There is considerable
evidence that Kim Jong Il is nuts.

--
Dan

'Gut feeling'

Intestinologists concur that the human gut does not contain any
rational thoughts.

What the human gut *is* full of is moderately well
known.

"Bob Fry" wrote in message
...

Hmmmmm.....no. N. Korea is an isolated society controlled by a few
kooks without a cause that inspires followers. True, the worst case
is they shoot a couple of nukes off, let's say one in Asia, another to
the US...followed with massive retaliation by the US. A much more
likely scenario is they keep making threats until we can get some
practical people in the White House, replacing the current idelogues,
who will actually talk to the kooks and see what they really want (my
guess is some assurance they won't be invaded).


You call them kooks and in the same paragraph assume that what they really
want is something reasonable. Do you not see error in logic there?

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
oups.com...
I wonder what our Air Force guys in South Korea are doing right now...

Sounds like they are watching missiles fail mid-flight according to CNN.
:-)

I was sort of hoping we'd use this occasion for some live tests of our
anti-missile laser and missile systems. It would be nice to have some
free targets for a change.

I wish I could feel so confident about this thing.

While the world's attention has been diverted to Iraq and Gaza, I think
the real nightmare scenario is developing in North Korea.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

I think the nut-jobs in North Korea will use their technology for blackmail.
They are bright enough to realize that if they ever pop of a ballistic
missile or a nuke at anyone, they will be out of power quickly because the
leadership cadre will be dead - squashed like a bug. In the end, staying in
power is their goal and being dead doesn't help that cause. So, instead of
lighting off their toys, they will rattle swords to blackmail the West and
their neighbors for various forms of aid which will serve to keep the little
gargoyle Kim El Jong in power.

The islamists, on the other hand, particularly the ones who have gone over
to the 99.99% extreme of their religion actually believe that dying is a
good thing if it is done in a way that kills infidels. If those people ever
get the bomb, I think they will use it if they get a chance.

"Kyle Boatright" wrote:

The islamists, on the other hand, particularly the ones who have gone over
to the 99.99% extreme of their religion actually believe that dying is a
good thing if it is done in a way that kills infidels. If those people
ever get the bomb, I think they will use it if they get a chance.

That is why the situation in Pakistan is potentially far more dangerous than
either N. Korea or Iran.

Pakistan is a nuclear power *now*, and is only a quick coup away from having
radical Islamists in power. What will the U. S. do if we wake up tomorrow
to find Pervez Musharraf overthrown and the Mullahs in charge? Certainly,
our options will be restricted by the effort being wasted in Iraq, and the
re-emerging Taliban problem that that useless war has permitted to rise in
Afghanistan.

At a time when we need to be light on our feet, we are stuck in a tar-pit:

"We are not controlling events in Iraq. Events in Iraq are controlling us.
We are the puppet; the street gangs of Baghdad and Basra are the
puppet-masters, aided and abetted by an unsavory assortment of confidence
men, bazaar traders, scheming clerics, ethnic front men, and Iranian agents.
With all our wealth and power and idealism, we have submitted to become the
plaything of a rabble, and a Middle Eastern rabble at that. [ ] The
lazy-minded evangelico-romanticism of George W. Bush, the bureaucratic will
to power of Donald Rumsfeld, the avuncular condescension of Dick Cheney, and
the reflexive military deference of Colin Powell combined to get us into a
situation we never wanted to be in, a situation no self-respecting nation
ought to be in, a situation we don't know how to get out of."

-John Derbyshire, National Review Online, June 12th, 2006


--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

Dan Luke wrote:

"Kyle Boatright" wrote:


The islamists, on the other hand, particularly the ones who have gone over
to the 99.99% extreme of their religion actually believe that dying is a
good thing if it is done in a way that kills infidels. If those people
ever get the bomb, I think they will use it if they get a chance.


That is why the situation in Pakistan is potentially far more dangerous than
either N. Korea or Iran.

Pakistan is a nuclear power *now*, and is only a quick coup away from having
radical Islamists in power. What will the U. S. do if we wake up tomorrow
to find Pervez Musharraf overthrown and the Mullahs in charge? Certainly,
our options will be restricted by the effort being wasted in Iraq, and the
re-emerging Taliban problem that that useless war has permitted to rise in
Afghanistan.

At a time when we need to be light on our feet, we are stuck in a tar-pit:

"We are not controlling events in Iraq. Events in Iraq are controlling us.
We are the puppet; the street gangs of Baghdad and Basra are the
puppet-masters, aided and abetted by an unsavory assortment of confidence
men, bazaar traders, scheming clerics, ethnic front men, and Iranian agents.
With all our wealth and power and idealism, we have submitted to become the
plaything of a rabble, and a Middle Eastern rabble at that. [ ] The
lazy-minded evangelico-romanticism of George W. Bush, the bureaucratic will
to power of Donald Rumsfeld, the avuncular condescension of Dick Cheney, and
the reflexive military deference of Colin Powell combined to get us into a
situation we never wanted to be in, a situation no self-respecting nation
ought to be in, a situation we don't know how to get out of."

-John Derbyshire, National Review Online, June 12th, 2006

What a bunch of crap.

Matt

"Dan Luke" wrote in message
...

"Kyle Boatright" wrote:

The islamists, on the other hand, particularly the ones who have gone
over to the 99.99% extreme of their religion actually believe that dying
is a good thing if it is done in a way that kills infidels. If those
people ever get the bomb, I think they will use it if they get a chance.

That is why the situation in Pakistan is potentially far more dangerous
than either N. Korea or Iran.

Pakistan is a nuclear power *now*, and is only a quick coup away from
having radical Islamists in power. What will the U. S. do if we wake up
tomorrow to find Pervez Musharraf overthrown and the Mullahs in charge?
Certainly, our options will be restricted by the effort being wasted in
Iraq, and the re-emerging Taliban problem that that useless war has
permitted to rise in Afghanistan.

At a time when we need to be light on our feet, we are stuck in a tar-pit:

"We are not controlling events in Iraq. Events in Iraq are controlling
us. We are the puppet; the street gangs of Baghdad and Basra are the
puppet-masters, aided and abetted by an unsavory assortment of confidence
men, bazaar traders, scheming clerics, ethnic front men, and Iranian
agents. With all our wealth and power and idealism, we have submitted to
become the plaything of a rabble, and a Middle Eastern rabble at that.
[ ] The lazy-minded evangelico-romanticism of George W. Bush, the
bureaucratic will to power of Donald Rumsfeld, the avuncular condescension
of Dick Cheney, and the reflexive military deference of Colin Powell
combined to get us into a situation we never wanted to be in, a situation
no self-respecting nation ought to be in, a situation we don't know how to
get out of."

-John Derbyshire, National Review Online, June 12th, 2006

This same Derbyshire?

"Does it not occur to you liberals, not even
for a passing instant, that by purging all
sacred images, references, and words
from our public life, you are leaving us
with nothing but a cold temple presided
over by the Goddess of Reason • that
counterfeit deity who, as history has
proved time and time and time again,
inspires no affection, retains no loyalties,
soothes no grief, justifies no sacrifice,
gives no comfort, extends no charity,
displays no pity, and offers no hope,
except to the tiny cliques of fanatical
ideologues who tend her cold blue
flame." -- John Derbyshire
http://www.nationalreview.com/derbys...hire082503.asp

Looks like they left the door unlocked at the funny farm again.