Manufacturing Quality

In article ,
"Kyle Boatright" wrote:
That's a rare case. What was the failure? I know of plenty of people who put
many, many miles on 80's vintage Accords with excellent reliability.

My current Accord has 217k miles and has had zero powertrain issues. No
engine work other than replacing the timing belt every 105k miles. No CV
work. No tranny work, and it even has the original clutch.

My wife had a 1994 Accord (purchased new), always properly maintained,
but the thing was a pain in the neck to work on. It was affected by an
oil seal recall; I forget where the seal was, but when (not if) it blew,
all of the oil got pumped out of the engine. It happened to my wife
shortly after she received the recall notice. Thankfully, she was close
to home. Honda did pick up the tab for tearing the car apart to replace
the seal (not for the towing), but at around 115k she starting having
transmission and/or torque converter issues (auto transmission). It was
also rusting in quite a few places, including FROM THE INSIDE OUT. Due
to the compounding small problems and the fact that it was useless in
the snow (even with top-shelf tires), we ditched it and bought a Subaru.

We've had good luck with the Subaru, except for some small annoyances
which the Honda may or may not have had, such as inaccurate speedometer
(errors high), etc. I know others folks who just love their Hondas, but
who have had some fairly major failures while their cars were still
young.

Driving the Honda Accord was decent but rather uninspiring--a boring
car. I didn't see anything spectacular about Honda compared with other
Japanese brands, but it's clear that Honda has greater brand loyalty.

On another note, I have a Honda engine on my $700 lawnmower, and it's
already having problems after only 1.5 years since new. It runs great,
but if small things keep breaking it's going to nickel and dime me to
death.



JKG

On Sat, 05 Aug 2006 13:27:12 GMT, john smith wrote in
:

With the news that Piper will produce the Hondajet,

Where did you get the idea that Piper will be doing production work
for Honda?

From Honda's statement below, it appears Piper will be doing only
sales and service, and perhaps some engineering.




http://corporate.honda.com/press/art...=2006072535888
07.25.06
Honda to Begin Sales of Very Light Jet - 'HondaJet'
Honda and Piper Aircraft to Form New Business Alliance

Honda today announced plans to enter the innovative HondaJet in the
growing very light jet market, with the process of accepting sales
orders expected to begin in the U.S. in fall 2006. Toward this goal,
Honda will establish a new U.S. company to hold FAA type certification
and production certification. Honda's goal is to complete type
certification in about 3-4 years, followed by the start of production
in the U.S.

Making the announcement at the Experimental Aircraft Association (EAA)
AirVenture 2006, the world's largest annual aviation gathering, Honda
also revealed plans to form a business alliance with Piper Aircraft,
Inc. to collaborate on sales and service, and to explore opportunities
in engineering and other areas within general and business aviation.

Honda and Piper will provide a new level of sales and service to meet
the needs of jet customers with the goal of setting a higher standard
for the quality of the ownership experience. No specific details
regarding additional collaboration were announced.

"Aviation has been an important dream of Honda for more than four
decades," said Satoshi Toshida, senior managing director of Honda
Motor Co., Ltd. "Our goal is consistent with the philosophy of other
Honda products -- to provide convenient and efficient transportation
that will make people's lives better. We are excited now to enter a
new dimension of mobility."

"In Piper we believe we have a partner we can collaborate with in our
effort to bring new value to customers in the very light jet market,"
said Toshida.

"Honda is a company with a rich heritage of bringing high quality,
innovative products to market," said James K. Bass, president and CEO
of Piper Aircraft, Inc. "This business alliance is a perfect fit given
the commitment both Piper and Honda have to providing our respective
customers with world class products and services. Piper is very
excited about this alliance and the way it complements our vision for
the future."

HondaJet features several innovations that help it achieve far better
fuel efficiency, larger cabin and luggage space and higher cruise
speed than conventional aircraft in its class. The announcement to
commercialize HondaJet comes one year after the plane made its world
public debut at EAA AirVenture 2005 in Oshkosh, Wis.

The result of 20 years of aviation research, key HondaJet innovations
include a patented over-the-wing engine-mount configuration, a
natural-laminar flow (NLF) wing and fuselage nose, and an advanced
all-composite fuselage structure.

"We want to create new value within the aviation market through the
unique new design of HondaJet," said Michimasa Fujino, HondaJet
project leader and vice president of Honda R&D Americas, Inc. "Our
goal is to deliver three key attributes - performance, quality and
comfort - beyond what people currently expect from light business
jets."

HondaJet's NLF wing and NLF fuselage nose were developed through
extensive analyses and wind-tunnel testing. These designs help
HondaJet achieve low drag. HondaJet's patented over-the-wing
engine-mount configuration helps eliminate the need for a structure to
mount the engines to the rear fuselage, maximizing space in the
fuselage for passengers and luggage. Further, by determining the
optimal position for the engines, the over-the-wing mount actually
reduces drag at high speed to improve fuel efficiency.

The advanced all-composite fuselage structure consists of a
combination of honeycomb sandwich structure and co-cured stiffened
panels. It was developed to reduce weight and manufacturing costs.
This aircraft is also outfitted with a state-of-the-art all-glass
flight deck with an integrated avionics system that displays all
information digitally on a high resolution flat display, and also has
an autopilot function.

To date the prototype six-to-seven seat HondaJet has completed more
than 240 hours of flight-testing since December 2003. So far, the
prototype HondaJet has achieved an altitude of 43,000 feet and a speed
of 412 knots and is on course to meet or exceed all of its design
specifications.

Piper Aircraft, Inc., headquartered in Vero Beach, Fla., is the only
general aviation manufacturer to offer a complete line of aircraft for
every general aviation mission, from trainers and high-performance
aircraft for personal and business use to turbine-powered business
aircraft. In its 70-year history, Piper has produced more than 144,000
aircraft and developed more than 180 different models. Piper covers
the global marketplace with 80 sales and service centers worldwide.

Honda is one of the world's leading producers of mobility products
including its diverse line-up of automobiles, motorcycles and ATVs,
power products, marine engines and personal watercraft. Honda is the
world's preeminent engine-maker, with annual worldwide production of
more than 20 million engines. On a global basis, Honda has more than
130 manufacturing facilities in 29 nations.

Honda began operations in North America in 1959 with the establishment
of American Honda Motor Co., Inc., Honda's first overseas subsidiary.
Honda began assembling motorcycles in America in 1979, with U.S.
automobile manufacturing starting in 1982. Honda now employs more than
28,000 Americans in the design, manufacture and marketing of its
products in America. Honda currently builds products in 13
manufacturing plants in North America, with three major R&D centers in
the U.S.

For more information, and for access to HondaJet photography and video
footage, please go to hondanews.com. For additional information on
HondaJet, please go to world.honda.com/hondajet.

HondaJet Backgrounder

Background:

The HondaJet is an advanced, lightweight, compact very light jet (VLJ)
that features pioneering wing and engine mount designs that have
helped achieve far better fuel efficiency, more available cabin and
luggage space, and higher cruise speed than conventional aircraft in
its class.



HondaJet Innovation:

A natural-laminar flow (NLF) wing and NLF fuselage nose were developed
through extensive analyses and wind tunnel testing - these designs
help achieve low drag at high speed together with a high lift
coefficient.
A patented over-the-wing engine-mount configuration was developed.
This design strategy eliminated the need for a structure to mount the
engines to the rear fuselage and, thus, maximizes cabin and luggage
space in the fuselage. The configuration is also expected to reduce
noise in the cabin. Further, by determining the optimal position for
the engines, the over-the-wing mount actually reduces drag at high
speed to improve fuel efficiency.
An advanced all-composite fuselage structure, consisting of a
combination of honeycomb sandwich structure and co-cured stiffened
panels, was developed to reduce weight and manufacturing costs.


Milestone Achievements:

HondaJet was designed and developed from the ground up by Honda in the
U.S. and Japan. Research work that led to the creation of HondaJet
began in 1986. The plane was constructed by Honda R&D Americas in
North Carolina and all flight tests have been conducted in the U.S..

Major ground tests such as structural proof tests, control-system
proof test, system function tests and ground vibration tests were
completed by December 2003.
HondaJet has recorded more than 240 flight hours through July 2006
HondaJet has achieved an altitude of 43,000 feet and a speed of 412
knots


Basic Design Specifications:

Following are the basic specification of the prototype HondaJet
design:

Seating 6-7 (2 crew + 5 passengers -or- 1 pilot + 6 passengers)
Maximum Speed 778 km/hr (420 knots)
Engine HF-118 Turbofan Engine - x 2
Length x Width x Height 12.67 x 12.2 x 4.1 m (41.6 x 39.9 x 13.2 ft)
Operational Ceiling 12,497 m (41,000 ft)
Range 2,037 km (1,100 nm)


Honda Aviation - A Brief History
1986: Honda begins research in Japan on both small aircraft and jet
engines.

1993: Honda begins research on composite body aircraft with
Mississippi State University (MSU), leading to development of aircraft
called "MH-02" that is jointly fabricated and tested by Honda and MSU.
Research continues until 1996.

1995: Honda begins high altitude testing of its first generation
turbofan engine, HFX-01, conducting more than 70hours of tests through
1996.

1999: Development begins of the HF118 turbofan jet engine in the 1,000
to 3,500-pound thrust class. Compact, lightweight, low emission, fuel
efficient.

2000: Honda R&D Americas establishes a research facility at Piedmont
Triad International Airport in North Carolina in October 2000 for the
purpose of researching, fabricating and flight testing of HondaJet.

2002: Honda conducts high altitude tests of the HF118 engine starting
in June 2002. Honda publishes and reports its first technical paper in
June 2002 concerning technological achievements of the new airframe.
Honda continues publishing technical papers, with the most recent
paper in June 2005.

2003: HondaJet takes first test flight, December 3, 2003. Honda makes
first public announcement of the achievement days later.

2004: Honda and GE Aviation announce February 16, 2004, an alliance to
commercialize the HF 118 engine, and establish a joint venture,
GE-Honda Aero Engines, LLC, in October 2004, to pursue the
development, production and sales of Honda's HF118 turbofan engine in
the light business jet market.

In July 2004, Honda establishes Honda Aero, Inc. to manage its
aircraft engine business in the U.S. and the Wako Nishi R&D Center in
Japan to research and develop turbofan jet and piston aviation
engines.



2005: HondaJet makes its public "world debut" at the EAA AirVenture
2005 in Oshkosh, Wisconsin, July 28, 2005.



2006: Honda announces that it will commercialize HondaJet at the EAA
AirVenture 2006 in Oshkosh, Wisconsin, July 25, 2006.






©2006 American Honda Motor Co., Inc. All information contained herein
applies to U.S. vehicles only.
Please see our Privacy Policy and Legal Terms and Conditions. Visit
Honda.com.
site map

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message ...
: On Sat, 05 Aug 2006 13:27:12 GMT, john smith wrote in
: :
:
: With the news that Piper will produce the Hondajet,
:
: Where did you get the idea that Piper will be doing production work
: for Honda?
:
: From Honda's statement below, it appears Piper will be doing only
: sales and service, and perhaps some engineering.
:


That was exactly my understanding, and that Piper and Honda may do some other ventures also. But Honda will build the
jet in the new plant location tbd...

On Sat, 05 Aug 2006 13:27:12 GMT, john smith wrote in
:

With the news that Piper will produce the Hondajet, I am wondering if
Piper will be able to produce the finished product to meet Honda's
quality standards.
Piper has not built anything bigger than a Malibu for 20 years.
The Cheyenne IV/LS-400 was the biggest aircraft Piper has produced.



Here's the latest word from Honda:


Honda Update - The World Wide Honda E-Mail newsletter
Tuesday, August 8, 2006. Direct from Tokyo, Japan.

- - - - - Honda Corporate News - - - - -


1) Honda Aircraft Company, Established
New Honda Subsidiary Will Market and Produce HondaJet in the U.S.

http://world.honda.com/news/2006/c06...rcraftCompany/

TOKYO, Japan, August 8, 2006 - Honda announced that is has
established a wholly-owned subsidiary, named Honda Aircraft
Company, which will be responsible for the further development,
sales promotion and production of the innovative HondaJet.
The new company will be based in a facility at the Piedmont Triad
International Airport in Greensboro, North Carolina, where the
prototype HondaJet was assembled and flight tests have been carried
out for more than 3 years.

Michimasa Fujino, the chief engineer who has led development of
HondaJet and spent the past 20 years in Honda’s aviation activities
with Honda R&D Co., Ltd., will be assigned as the president and CEO of
Honda Aircraft Company, and prepare for the full operation start of
the new company from October.

Honda Aircraft Company will begin taking sales orders for HondaJet
this fall, with the goal of delivering the first mass production
HondaJet in 2010. In addition, the company will develop the production
version of HondaJet, pursue and hold both type certification and
production certification, and conduct marketing activities for the
aircraft. The company also will manage Honda’s new alliance with
Piper Aircraft, Inc., which will collaborate on sales and service. The
goal of this alliance is to provide a new level of sales and service
to meet the needs of jet customers with the goal of setting a higher
standard for the quality of the ownership experience.

HondaJet features several innovations that help it achieve far better
fuel efficiency, larger cabin and luggage space and higher cruise
speed than conventional aircraft in its class. The result of 20 years
of aviation research, key HondaJet innovations include a patented
over-the-wing engine-mount configuration, a natural-laminar flow (NLF)
wing and fuselage nose, and an advanced all-composite fuselage
structure.