Important message for SSA members

Mike Schumann wrote:
Here are the IRS FAQs regarding public disclosu

http://www.irs.gov/charities/article...=96430,00.html

I would suspect that the fact that the non-profit failed to pay taxes and
file tax returns as required by law would be covered by the spirit, if not
the letter of the public disclosure rules.
snip

Here is an excerpt (FAQ #10) that answers the question:

If an organization makes its documents "widely available" must it make
the documents available for public inspection?

Yes. Making documents widely available satisfies the requirement to
provide copies of the documents. This requirement is separate from the
requirement to make the documents available for public inspection.
There is no exception (similar to the widely available exception) from
the requirement to make documents available for public inspection.

----

Realistically, you can't expect to keep something confidential by
telling it to 16,000 people!

Tom Seim
Richland, WA

Mike Schumann wrote:
Here are the IRS FAQs regarding public disclosu

http://www.irs.gov/charities/article...=96430,00.html

I would suspect that the fact that the non-profit failed to pay taxes and
file tax returns as required by law would be covered by the spirit, if not
the letter of the public disclosure rules.
snip

Here is an excerpt (FAQ #10) that answers the question:

If an organization makes its documents "widely available" must it make
the documents available for public inspection?

Yes. Making documents widely available satisfies the requirement to
provide copies of the documents. This requirement is separate from the
requirement to make the documents available for public inspection.
There is no exception (similar to the widely available exception) from
the requirement to make documents available for public inspection.

----

Realistically, you can't expect to keep something confidential by
telling it to 16,000 people!

Tom Seim
Richland, WA

On Sun, 3 Sep 2006 23:17:21 UTC, Nyal Williams
wrote:

: Your posting on r.a.s. of the letter to the SSA membership
: calls into question your judgment, your ethics, your
: integrity, your loyalty to any organization of which
: you have ever been a part, your friendship with anyone
: you've ever known, and even your intelligence.

Why, exactly? What's so terrible about us foreigners hearing of this
sad affair?

If this had happened in a listed company in the UK, they would have
been legally obliged to make a public statement on the matter.

Ian

And you are still shooting from the hip.

At 18:00 04 September 2006, Mike Schumann wrote:
The fact that they didn't file returns in 2003 certainly
is public
information. How long does it take to do an investigation
like this? This
should have been resolved and fixed in one week, and
the CFO fired.

Mike Schumann

'Wayne Paul' wrote in message
...

'Mike Schumann' wrote in message
nk.net...
Here are the IRS FAQs regarding public disclosu

http://www.irs.gov/charities/article...=96430,00.html

I would suspect that the fact that the non-profit
failed to pay taxes and
file tax returns as required by law would be covered
by the spirit, if
not the letter of the public disclosure rules.

Mike Schumann

...and I am sure the SSA will make full disclosure
when they file their
annual financial statement. However, it would be
inappropriate to release
detailed information while the investigation is ongoing.
The current
disclosure to association membership was not a legal
requirement... it was
a courtesy.

Wayne
HP-14 N990 '6F'
http://www.soaridaho.com/

Why such outrage at the reposter, and apparent member
apathy about such a seemingly serious issue as the
possible (probable?) demise of our national organization?
Simple.

Berating the reporter is a common boardroom tactic
used by those in a precarious, embarrassing position
when confronted with evidence of their incompetence.
The person trying to bring their actions to light
is accused of being a traitor and trying to undermine
the organization, usually in such an obnoxious way
that the others in attendance would rather change the
subject than deal with the situation. As we've seen
in this case, the tactic usually works.

Trying to sweep a problem under the rug in the name
of organizational privacy is a rediculous attempt to
keep things under wraps while those involved can either
make their escape, destroy the evidence or find someone
else to blame.

There is NO excuse for failure to pay taxes. Are we
really to believe that this was just an honest mistake?
The taxes were just 'overlooked' for four years?
Is this really the best leadership we can find?

Maybe we should investigate scrapping the whole SSA
concept, and either starting over, or joining forces
with one of the other (infinitely more effective) aviation
organizations, such as AOPA, or even USHGA.

Let the flaming begin...

Bob C


At 19:31 05 September 2006, wrote:
I'm surprised at two things in this thread. First
the outrage leveled
at the reposter of the message. Is this really unexpected?
Water
isn't the only thing to follow the path of least resistance
- the
internet eases the flow of information considerably
and anyone that
posts a message here pointing the rest of us to the
SSA site should
assume that said information will appear on RAS in
short order. Second
the lack of outrage leveled at the SSA is remarkably
stunning. I guess
lifelong members of the SSA have just gotten used to
this level of
incompetence? Frankly at this point I am starting
to believe that the
best thing that could happen to the SSA is for it to
dissolve. I
highly doubt any of the executive members will be honest
enough to
state that the biggest threat to the long term viability
of the SSA
isn't the declining number of people soaring but the
financial
mismanagement of the organization.

-bob

I think having a Soaring sub-group under the AOPA umbrella sounds like a
great potential solution. This could leverage AOPA's existing
organizational infrastructure (financial, publishing, lobbying, insurance,
etc.), dramatically reducing the amount of resources that are being spent on
these types of activities by the SSA.

Mike Schumann

"Bob C" wrote in message
...
Why such outrage at the reposter, and apparent member
apathy about such a seemingly serious issue as the
possible (probable?) demise of our national organization?
Simple.

Berating the reporter is a common boardroom tactic
used by those in a precarious, embarrassing position
when confronted with evidence of their incompetence.
The person trying to bring their actions to light
is accused of being a traitor and trying to undermine
the organization, usually in such an obnoxious way
that the others in attendance would rather change the
subject than deal with the situation. As we've seen
in this case, the tactic usually works.

Trying to sweep a problem under the rug in the name
of organizational privacy is a rediculous attempt to
keep things under wraps while those involved can either
make their escape, destroy the evidence or find someone
else to blame.

There is NO excuse for failure to pay taxes. Are we
really to believe that this was just an honest mistake?
The taxes were just 'overlooked' for four years?
Is this really the best leadership we can find?

Maybe we should investigate scrapping the whole SSA
concept, and either starting over, or joining forces
with one of the other (infinitely more effective) aviation
organizations, such as AOPA, or even USHGA.

Let the flaming begin...

Bob C


At 19:31 05 September 2006, wrote:
I'm surprised at two things in this thread. First
the outrage leveled
at the reposter of the message. Is this really unexpected?
Water
isn't the only thing to follow the path of least resistance
- the
internet eases the flow of information considerably
and anyone that
posts a message here pointing the rest of us to the
SSA site should
assume that said information will appear on RAS in
short order. Second
the lack of outrage leveled at the SSA is remarkably
stunning. I guess
lifelong members of the SSA have just gotten used to
this level of
incompetence? Frankly at this point I am starting
to believe that the
best thing that could happen to the SSA is for it to
dissolve. I
highly doubt any of the executive members will be honest
enough to
state that the biggest threat to the long term viability
of the SSA
isn't the declining number of people soaring but the
financial
mismanagement of the organization.

-bob

We have always wanted to be more like the BGA. Do you
believe that, comprising 1% of the pilot population,
we would receive any notice inside AOPA? Maybe one
page near the back of the magazine -- occasionally.


At 13:06 06 September 2006, Mike Schumann wrote:
I think having a Soaring sub-group under the AOPA umbrella
sounds like a
great potential solution. This could leverage AOPA's
existing
organizational infrastructure (financial, publishing,
lobbying, insurance,
etc.), dramatically reducing the amount of resources
that are being spent on
these types of activities by the SSA.

Mike Schumann

'Bob C' wrote in message
...
Why such outrage at the reposter, and apparent member
apathy about such a seemingly serious issue as the
possible (probable?) demise of our national organization?
Simple.

Berating the reporter is a common boardroom tactic
used by those in a precarious, embarrassing position
when confronted with evidence of their incompetence.
The person trying to bring their actions to light
is accused of being a traitor and trying to undermine
the organization, usually in such an obnoxious way
that the others in attendance would rather change
the
subject than deal with the situation. As we've seen
in this case, the tactic usually works.

Trying to sweep a problem under the rug in the name
of organizational privacy is a rediculous attempt
to
keep things under wraps while those involved can either
make their escape, destroy the evidence or find someone
else to blame.

There is NO excuse for failure to pay taxes. Are
we
really to believe that this was just an honest mistake?
The taxes were just 'overlooked' for four years?
Is this really the best leadership we can find?

Maybe we should investigate scrapping the whole SSA
concept, and either starting over, or joining forces
with one of the other (infinitely more effective)
aviation
organizations, such as AOPA, or even USHGA.

Let the flaming begin...

Bob C


At 19:31 05 September 2006, wrote:
I'm surprised at two things in this thread. First
the outrage leveled
at the reposter of the message. Is this really unexpected?
Water
isn't the only thing to follow the path of least resistance
- the
internet eases the flow of information considerably
and anyone that
posts a message here pointing the rest of us to the
SSA site should
assume that said information will appear on RAS in
short order. Second
the lack of outrage leveled at the SSA is remarkably
stunning. I guess
lifelong members of the SSA have just gotten used to
this level of
incompetence? Frankly at this point I am starting
to believe that the
best thing that could happen to the SSA is for it to
dissolve. I
highly doubt any of the executive members will be honest
enough to
state that the biggest threat to the long term viability
of the SSA
isn't the declining number of people soaring but the
financial
mismanagement of the organization.

-bob

Maybe one page in the AOPA magazine every month would be a great way to get
more pilots interested in soaring. That might do more for the sport than a
full color glossy magazine aimed at the converted.

Mike Schumann

"Nyal Williams" wrote in message
...
We have always wanted to be more like the BGA. Do you
believe that, comprising 1% of the pilot population,
we would receive any notice inside AOPA? Maybe one
page near the back of the magazine -- occasionally.


At 13:06 06 September 2006, Mike Schumann wrote:
I think having a Soaring sub-group under the AOPA umbrella
sounds like a
great potential solution. This could leverage AOPA's
existing
organizational infrastructure (financial, publishing,
lobbying, insurance,
etc.), dramatically reducing the amount of resources
that are being spent on
these types of activities by the SSA.

Mike Schumann

'Bob C' wrote in message
...
Why such outrage at the reposter, and apparent member
apathy about such a seemingly serious issue as the
possible (probable?) demise of our national organization?
Simple.

Berating the reporter is a common boardroom tactic
used by those in a precarious, embarrassing position
when confronted with evidence of their incompetence.
The person trying to bring their actions to light
is accused of being a traitor and trying to undermine
the organization, usually in such an obnoxious way
that the others in attendance would rather change
the
subject than deal with the situation. As we've seen
in this case, the tactic usually works.

Trying to sweep a problem under the rug in the name
of organizational privacy is a rediculous attempt
to
keep things under wraps while those involved can either
make their escape, destroy the evidence or find someone
else to blame.

There is NO excuse for failure to pay taxes. Are
we
really to believe that this was just an honest mistake?
The taxes were just 'overlooked' for four years?
Is this really the best leadership we can find?

Maybe we should investigate scrapping the whole SSA
concept, and either starting over, or joining forces
with one of the other (infinitely more effective)
aviation
organizations, such as AOPA, or even USHGA.

Let the flaming begin...

Bob C


At 19:31 05 September 2006, wrote:
I'm surprised at two things in this thread. First
the outrage leveled
at the reposter of the message. Is this really unexpected?
Water
isn't the only thing to follow the path of least resistance
- the
internet eases the flow of information considerably
and anyone that
posts a message here pointing the rest of us to the
SSA site should
assume that said information will appear on RAS in
short order. Second
the lack of outrage leveled at the SSA is remarkably
stunning. I guess
lifelong members of the SSA have just gotten used to
this level of
incompetence? Frankly at this point I am starting
to believe that the
best thing that could happen to the SSA is for it to
dissolve. I
highly doubt any of the executive members will be honest
enough to
state that the biggest threat to the long term viability
of the SSA
isn't the declining number of people soaring but the
financial
mismanagement of the organization.

-bob

Mike Schumann wrote:
Maybe one page in the AOPA magazine every month would be a great way to get
more pilots interested in soaring. That might do more for the sport than a
full color glossy magazine aimed at the converted.

Mike Schumann

"Nyal Williams" wrote in message
...
We have always wanted to be more like the BGA. Do you
believe that, comprising 1% of the pilot population,
we would receive any notice inside AOPA? Maybe one
page near the back of the magazine -- occasionally.

AOPA has been pretty good about running soaring related articles from
time to time. Also, doubtless other magazines and newsletters would
spring up to take the place of SOARING.

As an example of the way things might turn out in the AOPA magazine,
look at Aerokurier. Although primarily a power magazine, it has soaring
features, too.

AOPA is a great organization that has done much good for general aviation
for many years. I wish them well, but don't want us to become part of them.

We shouldn't get ourselves under their umbrella. In a tough battle with the
FAA, I'd be worried about soaring issues becoming something to bargain away
in a compromise, in order to preserve rights for the powered aircraft (their
major constituency).

In a hypothetical business jet/glider midair, whose side do you think they'd
be on when it comes to proposing solutions?

They wouldn't fight for us as hard as we will fight for us. If we can only
get competent leadership in the SSA (sadly lacking for many years), we
actually might be able to fight for ourselves.

Regards,
Bullwinkle

On 9/6/06 11:07 AM, in article yfDLg.18776$RD.4368@fed1read08, "Greg Arnold"
wrote:

Mike Schumann wrote:
Maybe one page in the AOPA magazine every month would be a great way to get
more pilots interested in soaring. That might do more for the sport than a
full color glossy magazine aimed at the converted.

Mike Schumann

"Nyal Williams" wrote in message
...
We have always wanted to be more like the BGA. Do you
believe that, comprising 1% of the pilot population,
we would receive any notice inside AOPA? Maybe one
page near the back of the magazine -- occasionally.

AOPA has been pretty good about running soaring related articles from
time to time. Also, doubtless other magazines and newsletters would
spring up to take the place of SOARING.

As an example of the way things might turn out in the AOPA magazine,
look at Aerokurier. Although primarily a power magazine, it has soaring
features, too.