First Glider Purchase

I should start by saying that I've never flown an ASW22, a Stemme, a
Lak12 or an ASW20, so this is from talking to more experienced pilots
and thinking about my own experience. I've been flying gliders for 10
years and have several hundred hours including Gold distance. For the
last 3 years I've been flying an Open Cirrus.

1. From what I've heard the ASW22 and the LAK are fairly challenging to
fly - not in the upper air, but to some extent on launching and
definitely on landing. Those very big wings require you to be seriously
on the ball. I'd be happy flying one now, with appropriate briefing, but
a few years ago I think either might have been beyond my skills. Same
goes for the Stemme.

2. The ASW20 is, I'm told, great to fly and, once you've mastered use of
flaps, not difficult. However, not a first solo glider, as it's slippery
and complicated enough to get you into trouble faster than your early
skils can cope. I'd think you'd want at least a year solo in single
seaters before you moved into a 20, but ask those who actually fly them
for the real answer.

Frank Whiteley suggests an Open Cirrus, so I thought I could at least
give you my comments from actual experience he

a. Derek Piggott describes it as suitable for a first solo machine, and
I'd agree for a pilot who's pretty sharp and has a few hours in a club
single seater like an Astir. Handling is good for its age and span, and
I can't think of any real vices. Airbrakes are K6 power, rather than
K21, and you must be able to control your speed on the approach or
you'll float forever. Tailchute can be taped up to start with, and is
quite easy to use once you've practiced with it.

b. However, this is a gentleman's glider for easing around the sky. In
most UK condititions you go everywhere between 50kt and 60kt, usually at
the lower end of that range. If you want to travel long distances in a
steady, calm manner, it's excellent. If you want to hurtle around at
thrilling speeds, don't buy an Open Cirrus. If you want to do a 300k
when the thermals are only averaging 2kt, this glider will take you round.

c. The wings are definitely heavy because S-H didn't know in 1967 how
strong glass needed to be. I believe the LBA failed to break an Open
Cirrus wing at 15g. This is easy to cope with using home made rigging
aids - I've nearly finished setting mine up for one-man rig at a cost of
about £100 (plus spilt blood, etc.). The wings are a couple of metres
longer than the fuselage, so there's space in the trailer for as much
rigging gear as anyone could want.

You could get one of these for around the £10k mark, and if you don't
want to fly at weekends syndicate it to halve the cost.

Given your budget, have you considered a share in an LS8-18? Again, not
flown my me but I'm told they have nice handling, are good in weak
conditions and have a wide range of working speeds for the strong days
(if any in the UK). I see two for sale on gliderpilot.net, both in the
low £40k range.

brian d wrote:
Hello Pundits,

Now that I am retired I have decided to live a little before its to
late....no more I will do X Y and Z NEXT YEAR. I first went solo in a
glider at the Midland Gliding club in 1976 and then solo on power the
same year. Power flying quickly lost its attraction and I didnt
complete my licence but my first love was always gliding .
I have not done any gliding for a number of years and intend buying my
first glider in the next few months....the question is which one....and
whether or not to go for outright ownership or a syndicate machine.

My shortlist is now as follows: Max budget £35K

FIRST CHOICE ASW22 I am told that the best version is the BL. I
would welcome any other opinions as to whether this is true or not !!
all though the thought of a field landing in something with this much
span is off putting £10k for a fifth share in a syndicate that only
flew 80 hours last year is attractive.
I should add that I personally DONT WANT TO FLY AT WEEKENDS. so I am
quite marketable myself.
I of course accept that I will not be a good enough pilot to jump
straight into something with an LD of 60/1 and a 22/24 Metre span after
a weekends refresher at Church Stretton.
The plan would be to do an intensive 2 week tailor made course in the
UK ( SUGGESTIONS AS TO EXACTLY WHERE ARE ALSO WELCOME) and then have
six weeks.... or more if advised... at somewhere like Fuentemilanos in
Spain where i understand I might get 30 hours flying EVERY week if I
book in May/June next year !!
It might be that even this level of intensive instruction and practice
wouldnt be enough and I hope that at 58 years old I2 am mature enough
to get into an ASW22 when I am ready as opposed to when I am the only
one that thinks I am ready.

SECOND CHOICE

A quarter share in a STEMME ST V10

Probably the easiest option with all the advantages of long distance "
go look and see" soaring, self launching independance, virtually
guaranteed SAFE engine restarts and near certain back to base return
trips home at the end of a day thats as long as you want it to
be...only disadvantage iffy ground handling.

THIRD CHOICE

A LAK 12

For outright ownership...lots of bang for the buck ! cheap to buy, very
strong a great long distance tourer although not a competition machine ;
the main disadvantage appears to be that the single piece wings weigh in
at 240llbs each and the trailer is as long as a bowling alley.
Despite being cheap the preparation to fly it would follow the same
plan as the ASW22, two weeks in England and 4/6 weeks in Spain.

FOURTH CHOICE

ASW 20L
For outright ownership.
this would keep everything nice and simple....which is probably why its
the last on my list.

Well you will all be pleased to know that I have come to the end of my
first post...any helpfull opinions would be much appreciated.

Regards brian d

Chris Reed wrote:

Given your budget, have you considered a share in an LS8-18? Again, not
flown my me but I'm told they have nice handling, are good in weak
conditions and have a wide range of working speeds for the strong days
(if any in the UK). I see two for sale on gliderpilot.net, both in the
low £40k range.


I'd second this line of thinking. As a CFI, I've had any number of
guys show up for a "flight review" with a private glider rating that
hasn't been exercised in a bunch of years. In almost all cases, it
was as if the person was starting from scratch. I can go look at my
records, but I would bet that the average person has probably taken 20
flights (aero tow) to get signed off. One guy took nearly 30.

Point being, you should treat this almost as if you were an ab initio
student. In that case, I'd be looking at a year of flying club
equipment (assuming you can fly fairly frequently) before even thinking
about a glider purchase. After that, I would focus on something with
gentle handling characteristics, excellent landing capabilities (as you
will be landing in some fields), and performance relevant to your
goals.

As an owner of an LS8-18, I have to say that I'm partial to this ship.
If you formed a two-person syndicate, this would esily fit your budget.
Also, having previously owned an LS4, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend
one of those if you are intent on being a sole owner. I'd save the
big wingers for a little later.

Erik Mann
LS8-18 (P3)