Black Boxes for GA Aircraft...Good or Bad?

On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 19:28:41 +0000, RK Henry wrote:

Savings of up to $1,000/yr in insurance?

Why? What use has the insurance company for this information, and how
does it reduce your risk enough to make that type of difference?

Either the companies want some data and are willing to pay for it, or this
is a tool to disallow coverage (or whatever the phrase is) given
information the insurance company would otherwise lack.

I'd not begrudge the companies accident data (esp. if they share with the
likes of ASF), but I'd not even consider installing such a thing w/o
written agreement that nothing in that box can be used to render insurance
void (or whatever the phrase is).

- Andrew

"RK Henry" wrote in message
...
On 27 Oct 2006 08:08:48 -0700, "Greengears"
wrote:

Got this article in an AOPA email about black boxes being installed in
the Cirrus SR20 and SR22. Do you think that all flight schools should
have these type of black boxes installed in their aircrafts?


... It
could save up to $1,000 a year in owner insurance, a company official
estimated. ...

Savings of up to $1,000/yr in insurance? Holy cow! How much does it
cost to insure one of those things otherwise?

Does that mean that if I put one on my Warrior that I could insure for
free?

RK Henry

If the insurance company thinks there enough value there for them to give
you a $1k/year discount for installing a $5k box it would seem they would be
better off just paying for the box and keeping their $1k per year. Then they
start really making money after 5 years.

On Mon, 30 Oct 2006 10:51:24 -0600, "Gig 601XL Builder"
wrDOTgiaconaATcox.net wrote:


"RK Henry" wrote in message
.. .
On 27 Oct 2006 08:08:48 -0700, "Greengears"
wrote:

Got this article in an AOPA email about black boxes being installed in
the Cirrus SR20 and SR22. Do you think that all flight schools should
have these type of black boxes installed in their aircrafts?


... It
could save up to $1,000 a year in owner insurance, a company official
estimated. ...

Savings of up to $1,000/yr in insurance? Holy cow! How much does it
cost to insure one of those things otherwise?

Does that mean that if I put one on my Warrior that I could insure for
free?

RK Henry

If the insurance company thinks there enough value there for them to give
you a $1k/year discount for installing a $5k box it would seem they would be
better off just paying for the box and keeping their $1k per year. Then they
start really making money after 5 years.

My main point was that I don't pay as much as $1,000/yr now. A $1,000
discount would have them paying me. Could that $5k box really be that
valuable?

RK Henry

"Greengears" wrote in message
ups.com...
Got this article in an AOPA email about black boxes being installed in
the Cirrus SR20 and SR22. Do you think that all flight schools should
have these type of black boxes installed in their aircrafts?



Consider the fact that without one, if you have an accident, you are pretty
much at the mercy of an "expert" who, potentially, couldn't find his butt
with both hands and a flashlight (at least that was the "accident
reconstructionist" from the state police that I had the misfortune of
dealing with)...

I wish cars had these.

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

"Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" The Sea Hawk at wow way d0t com wrote in message
news:yvidnbruEJwv59_YnZ2dnUVZ_rGdnZ2d@wideopenwest .com...
"Greengears" wrote in message
ups.com...
Got this article in an AOPA email about black boxes being installed in
the Cirrus SR20 and SR22. Do you think that all flight schools should
have these type of black boxes installed in their aircrafts?



Consider the fact that without one, if you have an accident, you are
pretty much at the mercy of an "expert" who, potentially, couldn't find
his butt with both hands and a flashlight (at least that was the "accident
reconstructionist" from the state police that I had the misfortune of
dealing with)...

I wish cars had these.

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.


Most cars built today do have a black box....the engine control unit.
Records speed, temp, engine RPM, MAP, transmission gear, and may include
airbag state, brake application and other sensors depending on make and
model. Post crash, the data can be used for or against you.
Regards,
John Severyn
@KLVK

J. Severyn wrote:
"Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" The Sea Hawk at wow way d0t com wrote in message
news:yvidnbruEJwv59_YnZ2dnUVZ_rGdnZ2d@wideopenwest .com...
I wish cars had these.

Most cars built today do have a black box....the engine control unit.
Records speed, temp, engine RPM, MAP, transmission gear, and may include
airbag state, brake application and other sensors depending on make and
model. Post crash, the data can be used for or against you.

Exactly. Some states are passing laws preventing insurance companies
from using your car's data against you. There have already been some
convictions where the defendant claimed to not have been speeding
before an accident, but the engine and transmission computers' memory
showed otherwise.

There was even a priest in a nighttime hit-and-run case who claimed not
to have seen anybody, but his car module showed that he hit his brakes
at the time the person was killed. He was convicted.

Kev

Greengears writes:

Got this article in an AOPA email about black boxes being installed in
the Cirrus SR20 and SR22. Do you think that all flight schools should
have these type of black boxes installed in their aircrafts?

Anything that helps determine the cause of accidents is essentially a
good thing. However, because of the cost of the black boxes and the
relatively limited budgets of GA aviators, I don't think that they
should be mandatory. Flight schools might more easily be able to
assume the cost, but I'm not sure I see the value of installing them
specifically at flight schools. The real mystery accidents are not
likely to involve flight schools.

'BLACK BOXES' SOON AVAILABLE FOR CIRRUS AIRPLANES

Somehow it doesn't surprise me that Cirrus would be mentioned in
connection with this.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

In article . com,
"Greengears" wrote:

Got this article in an AOPA email about black boxes being installed in
the Cirrus SR20 and SR22. Do you think that all flight schools should
have these type of black boxes installed in their aircrafts?

No.

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate

Greengears wrote:
Got this article in an AOPA email about black boxes being installed in
the Cirrus SR20 and SR22. Do you think that all flight schools should
have these type of black boxes installed in their aircrafts?


Flight schools? I don't see the benefit. The article did say something
about Pt135 operations flying Cirruses having them installed - if that
gets them a break in insurance then I guess there's no harm

Greengears wrote:
Got this article in an AOPA email about black boxes being installed in
the Cirrus SR20 and SR22. Do you think that all flight schools should
have these type of black boxes installed in their aircrafts?



Since insurance companies are in the business of finding who is at
fault, I suppose it could have some benefit to them if you had such a
box, and it would be fair to expect to get a discount in your premiums.

However, you asked whether flight schools _should_ have these boxes.
The only way that would be true is if it found its way into the FARs. I
hope that would never become the case because the FAA is in the
business of improving aviation safety, and this box does nothing to
improve safety.