Icing conditions

No argument on that!

Dave



On Thu, 30 Nov 2006 08:31:16 -0800, "Al G"
wrote:


"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
.. .

crap snipped...

It's been my experience that any aircraft once exposed to ice, will
naturally seek out warmer air below.

Al G

In article ,
Mxsmanic wrote:

From what I understand, icing protection should be turned on if the
outside temperature is 5° C or less. However, what is the reason for
not having it on all the time? Does it overheat in normal weather, or
what?

No, it just wastes resources and puts unnecessary wear and tear on
things.

I read that turning on icing protection before "sufficient ice has
accumulated" may prevent the protection from working to remove the
ice. Why?

That applies only to boots. If the ice layer is too thin it may remain
adhered to the boot.

Also, what types of anti-icing stuff should I turn on? Just
everything that deals with ice (wing, prop, pitot, fuel vent, etc.),
or is there an accepted order or hierarchy for these things?

Except for boots, the safest policy is to just turn it all on if there's
any possibility of ice.

rg

Ron Garret writes:

Except for boots, the safest policy is to just turn it all on if there's
any possibility of ice.

And how do I recognize a possibility of ice? Should I assume that any
time I enter a cloud? Is there a safe external temperature above
which ice is never an issue? Logically I'd assume that ice would form
at zero degrees Celsius, but I don't know what margin above that to
provide. At the same time, I don't want to wear things out (even
though they never wear out in the sim) by running them when there's no
real chance of ice.

If ice starts to collect on places like the wings, what's the first
thing I would notice in the way the aircraft behaves? I do have a
light that shines on the wing so I can look at it, but I need to know
what the symptoms are of ice build-up as well.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

In article ,
Mxsmanic wrote:

Ron Garret writes:

Except for boots, the safest policy is to just turn it all on if there's
any possibility of ice.

Correction: TKS should also be used sparingly because the amount of
fluid is limited.

And how do I recognize a possibility of ice? Should I assume that any
time I enter a cloud?

Obviously not. It has to be cold too.

Is there a safe external temperature above
which ice is never an issue? Logically I'd assume that ice would form
at zero degrees Celsius, but I don't know what margin above that to
provide.

Yes you do. You stated it yourself when you first asked the question.

Once again I have to ask: you do this a lot (dropping the context of the
conversation). Why? Do you have some mental deficiency that prevents
you from remembering what you have said previously in a conversation?
Or do you do it intentionally? If so, why? I really want to know.

At the same time, I don't want to wear things out (even
though they never wear out in the sim) by running them when there's no
real chance of ice.

These things are ultimately judgement calls, and depend on the risk
profile you wish to adopt. Since you're flying a sim it's a moot point.
Pick a policy; one is as good as another.

If ice starts to collect on places like the wings, what's the first
thing I would notice in the way the aircraft behaves?

In my first icing encounter the first thing I noticed was that less air
was coming through the vent. I didn't realize I had ice for another few
minutes.

I do have a
light that shines on the wing so I can look at it, but I need to know
what the symptoms are of ice build-up as well.

That depends on your sim. I'd consult the manual.

rg

Ron Garret writes:

Obviously not. It has to be cold too.

Yes, but the leading edge of the wing might be colder than the cloud.
When water drops hit it, they solidify, then you have ice on the wing.

This is similar to the problem with cold-soaked wings on airliners
when they land at a warm and humid airport.

These things are ultimately judgement calls, and depend on the risk
profile you wish to adopt. Since you're flying a sim it's a moot point.
Pick a policy; one is as good as another.

Sims crash, too.

That depends on your sim. I'd consult the manual.

The manual doesn't describe symptoms.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

In article ,
Mxsmanic wrote:

Ron Garret writes:

Obviously not. It has to be cold too.

Yes, but the leading edge of the wing might be colder than the cloud.
When water drops hit it, they solidify, then you have ice on the wing.

Yes, that is possible. Nonetheless, it has to be cold. Exactly how
cold depends a lot on the particular circumstances. The first time I
had ice my OAT read 3C (which is why it took me by surprise). YMMV.

This is similar to the problem with cold-soaked wings on airliners
when they land at a warm and humid airport.

There is no such problem. (This is not to say that no ice forms under
such conditions, only that it is never a problem, especially not in an
airliner.)

These things are ultimately judgement calls, and depend on the risk
profile you wish to adopt. Since you're flying a sim it's a moot point.
Pick a policy; one is as good as another.

Sims crash, too.

Yes, especially when they run on Windows.

That depends on your sim. I'd consult the manual.

The manual doesn't describe symptoms.

Then I'd say you're screwed. It is unlikely in the extreme that your
sim has anything remotely approaching a realistic model of ice
formation. Absent documentation, the only way I can think of to figure
out what kind of crude hack it has it to reverse-engineer the code.

You did say you are a computer expert, right?

rg

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
From what I understand, icing protection should be turned on if the
outside temperature is 5° C or less. However, what is the reason for
not having it on all the time? Does it overheat in normal weather, or
what?

I read that turning on icing protection before "sufficient ice has
accumulated" may prevent the protection from working to remove the
ice. Why?

Also, what types of anti-icing stuff should I turn on? Just
everything that deals with ice (wing, prop, pitot, fuel vent, etc.),
or is there an accepted order or hierarchy for these things?

Once again, you are revealing your stupidity to us by the inane questions
you ask. You are such an idiot.

Since you said in another post (quoting exactly) about the sources of your
information:

"I also get a lot from textbooks, manuals, standard reference materials, and
reliable online resources. In some cases I get it directly from people I
believe to be qualified to provide it (which is not the same as people who
_claim_ to be qualified--there isn't always a lot of overlap)."

I suggest you go to those sources for this information. Few of us are
quailified to answer your questions since most of us possess airmen's
certificates and fly airplanes, not MSFS and the ilk.

"N2310D" wrote in
news:mImbh.15988$Uz.3908@trnddc05:

I suggest you go to those sources for this information. Few of us are
quailified to answer your questions since most of us possess airmen's
certificates and fly airplanes, not MSFS and the ilk.

FINALLY a reply that makes sense..... Unfortunately, it will fall on the
deaf ears of Mx.....

Soooo, the best reply to Mx would be no reply.....

Allen

"A Lieberma" wrote in message
. 18...
"N2310D" wrote in
news:mImbh.15988$Uz.3908@trnddc05:

I suggest you go to those sources for this information. Few of us are
quailified to answer your questions since most of us possess airmen's
certificates and fly airplanes, not MSFS and the ilk.

FINALLY a reply that makes sense..... Unfortunately, it will fall on the
deaf ears of Mx.....

Soooo, the best reply to Mx would be no reply.....

Allen

Hi Allen. Well, I sat back in the shadows and ignored Mx's stupidity for a
long time. In this case, I wasn't really replying to his post, only pointing
out to him what a dullard he is.

"N2310D" wrote

Hi Allen. Well, I sat back in the shadows and ignored Mx's stupidity for a
long time. In this case, I wasn't really replying to his post, only pointing
out to him what a dullard he is.

OK, in my book. Dullard does not even begin, IMHO. g
--
Jim in NC