Cowardice in Battle

Subject: Cowardice in Battle
From: "S. Sampson"
Date: 7/4/03 10:11 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

"Gord Beaman" wrote
(ArtKramr) wrote:

Memories force you to care. There isn't a single day day in 60 years that
I
haven't thought about the war. Maybe for just an instant, a flash of
memory
that keeps repeating. But the memories are always there And will never go
away.
Those who have no memories weren't there.


Arthur Kramer

Art, this is a good example of what we've been trying to tell
you. What earthly good is that last sentence of yours there?...It
serves only to irritate...

To place yourself somehow 'above' us unwashed peasants.

Much better to have left it out, much better. Can't you see
that?.

My memories are of the first piece of ass I got in the back of my Chevy.
I could barely keep up with her. There isn't a single day in 35 years that I
haven't thought about that Chevy. Those who have no memories weren't
there.


ROFL !!!! Outstanding !!!! But you have just insulted everyone who wasn't
there and is sensitive about not having been there. Where is your political
correctness.?
I LOVE IT !!! (Grin)


Arthur Kramer
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

Subject: Cowardice in Battle
From: "S. Sampson"
Date: 7/4/03 10:15 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

If there are those who are senssitive about not
having served, that in no way concerns me.

I don't think someone who arrived in the last months of the war can
be compared to someone who flew the first 25 missions into Germany.
But then, since I wasn't in that war, maybe my vote doesn't count.

I flew 50 missions. And since you flew none, you are not in a position to
critisize anyone who flew any at all. You stand far behind anyone who even flew
one mission.Very far behind.

Arthur Kramer
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

ArtKramr wrote:

Subject: Cowardice in Battle
From: "S. Sampson"
Date: 7/4/03 10:15 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

If there are those who are senssitive about not
having served, that in no way concerns me.

I don't think someone who arrived in the last months of the war can
be compared to someone who flew the first 25 missions into Germany.
But then, since I wasn't in that war, maybe my vote doesn't count.

I flew 50 missions. And since you flew none, you are not in a position to
critisize anyone who flew any at all. You stand far behind anyone who even flew
one mission.Very far behind.

I dunno, Art.

I found exception with what you said too.

I flew over 200 missions.
ALL of them far behind "enemy lines".

But Viet Nam probably doesn't count, does it.


Richard


Arthur Kramer
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

Subject: Cowardice in Battle
From: Richard Lamb
Date: 7/4/03 8:49 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:


ArtKramr wrote:

Subject: Cowardice in Battle
From: "S. Sampson"
Date: 7/4/03 10:15 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

If there are those who are senssitive about not
having served, that in no way concerns me.

I don't think someone who arrived in the last months of the war can
be compared to someone who flew the first 25 missions into Germany.
But then, since I wasn't in that war, maybe my vote doesn't count.

I flew 50 missions. And since you flew none, you are not in a position to
critisize anyone who flew any at all. You stand far behind anyone who even
flew
one mission.Very far behind.

I dunno, Art.

I found exception with what you said too.

I flew over 200 missions.
ALL of them far behind "enemy lines".

But Viet Nam probably doesn't count, does it.



Then don't attack those who also flew missions.

Arthur Kramer
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

Subject: Cowardice in Battle
From: Dave Holford
Date: 7/4/03 12:23 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:



ArtKramr wrote:

Subject: Cowardice in Battle
From: "Gord Beaman" )
Date: 7/4/03 9:20 AM Pacific Daylight Time

Memories force you to care. There isn't a single day day in 60 years that
I
haven't thought about the war. Maybe for just an instant, a flash of
memory
that keeps repeating. But the memories are always there And will never go
away.
Those who have no memories weren't there.


Arthur Kramer

Art, this is a good example of what we've been trying to tell
you. What earthly good is that last sentence of yours there?...It
serves only to irritate...

To place yourself somehow 'above' us unwashed peasants.

Much better to have left it out, much better. Can't you see
that?.
--

-Gord.


My point was the persistance of memory, nothing else. I am not responsible
for
the sensitivity of thoise who were not there. And I refuse to write my
thoughts
based on political correctness. If there are those who are senssitive about
not
having served, that in no way concerns me.

Arthur Kramer



It has nothing to do with 'political correctness' or 'sensitivity'; it
is your apparent arrogance that you are superior to anyone who did not
do what YOU did.

Dave


Getting a little sensitive are we?

Arthur Kramer
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

It has nothing to do with 'political correctness' or 'sensitivity'; it
is your apparent arrogance that you are superior to anyone who did not
do what YOU did.

Dave


Getting a little sensitive are we?

Arthur Kramer


Not in the slightest Art.
Just tired of your juvenile efforts to dismiss anyone who does not agree
with you.

I have nothing but admiration for those who flew into danger, but in my
(note MY) opinion those guys who flew low-slow unarmed C-47s across the
line of battle to deliver airborne troops behind enemy lines were every
bit as corageous as those who flew in formations of armed aircraft;
probably more so.

Ever since the civil war observation balloons, aircrew have risked their
lives in hazardous operations, and continue to do so today. However, one
must bear in mind that those who survive a mission of a few hours get to
eat a civilized meal and sleep in a safe bed. Something that many who
also fought for our freedom did not get to do for days, maybe even weeks
on end.

I don't doubt your bravery for a moment. But there are always brave
people when they are needed.

I have spent some time in the air and on the ground with survivors of
the war you write about. I was too young to join them before, but I
tried to gain some limited understanding of what they went through. The
squadron I served with lost many aircrew bombing Germany. The fact that
I got to talk and fly with a few survivors when the fighting was over
does not make me a hero, or a wanabee, or anything else you care to try
and characterize me as; except a guy who wanted to fly and was lucky
enough to get some guidance from people who had 'been there, done
that'.

Dave

Subject: Cowardice in Battle
From: Dave Holford
Date: 7/4/03 5:43 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:



It has nothing to do with 'political correctness' or 'sensitivity'; it
is your apparent arrogance that you are superior to anyone who did not
do what YOU did.

Dave


Getting a little sensitive are we?

Arthur Kramer


Not in the slightest Art.
Just tired of your juvenile efforts to dismiss anyone who does not agree
with you.

I have nothing but admiration for those who flew into danger, but in my
(note MY) opinion those guys who flew low-slow unarmed C-47s across the
line of battle to deliver airborne troops behind enemy lines were every
bit as corageous as those who flew in formations of armed aircraft;
probably more so.

Ever since the civil war observation balloons, aircrew have risked their
lives in hazardous operations, and continue to do so today. However, one
must bear in mind that those who survive a mission of a few hours get to
eat a civilized meal and sleep in a safe bed. Something that many who
also fought for our freedom did not get to do for days, maybe even weeks
on end.

I don't doubt your bravery for a moment. But there are always brave
people when they are needed.

I have spent some time in the air and on the ground with survivors of
the war you write about. I was too young to join them before, but I
tried to gain some limited understanding of what they went through. The
squadron I served with lost many aircrew bombing Germany. The fact that
I got to talk and fly with a few survivors when the fighting was over
does not make me a hero, or a wanabee, or anything else you care to try
and characterize me as; except a guy who wanted to fly and was lucky
enough to get some guidance from people who had 'been there, done
that'.

Dave


Yes. And of course you recognise the importance of having been there and done
that.I wish more would.


Arthur Kramer
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer