Boarding with engines running

Little Endian writes:

Actually it depends on what you consider to be "boring stuff".

Yes.

In my case, I consider going to and from the airport to be boring. I consider
not being close to home at the end of a flight to be hugely inconvenient. I
consider paying $250 an hour for each hour of flight to be very stressful. I
consider having to spend thousands of dollars and trudge through endless
paperwork just to be allowed to fly to be unacceptably onerous. I consider a
requirement that one be in Olympic condition to get a license to be an
unnecessary burden. I consider the inaccessibility of ownership of an
aircraft to be a major disappointment. I consider the possibility of being
killed to be an uncomfortably high risk. I consider the absence of bathrooms
on some aircraft to be a major inconvenience.

These are some of the reasons why I fly in simulation. Simulation preserves
most of the parts I like, while eliminating the parts I don't.

Lots of people engage in simulation of lots of things, for similar reasons.
Many people engage in combat simulations, for example, because real combat has
too many disadvantages.

I consider the entire act of flying in a sim to be boring, the reason
being that it cannot even qualify as a challenging video game.

Interesting. I find most video games boring ... except realistic simulations.
The games I like most are flight simulation, the Sims, and Sim City. Standard
FPS games leave me creaking with boredom in only a few seconds.

IMO, the reason for flying in real life is that it is a challenge and
challenges are fun.

Flying is a challenge in simulation, too. I'm surprised by how many people
cannot successfully take off or land in a simulator. This includes some
pilots, or at least the ones who have become dependent on physical sensations
(tin-can pilots and the like).

It is a challenge not because flying is hard, (it
isn't any harder than flying a sim) but because there is a penalty,
sometimes severe and always very real, for almost every mistake you
make.

Some people enjoy risking their lives; others find it an obstacle to
enjoyment.

In real life my pulse goes up every time I have to go around
with full flaps with trees looming at the end of the runway but on a
sim I can do the same even while sipping beer.

Simulation only works if you take it seriously.

I'll even go so far as to say that people who consistently treat simulation as
mere gaming may also treat real flight the same way, because this has its
basis in their personality. The same type of personality that blows off
checklists in simulation because "it's not real life, anyway," may also do the
same thing in real life, with some similar dismissal as rationalization.

Conversely, someone who can force himself to take simulation seriously--even
knowing that it's not real--should also be able to force himself to do things
by the book in real life, even when those things seem unnecessary.

The reason is that the
stakes are different and a sim can never simulate the most important
aspect of real life which is reality.

Reality might also be the least desirable part of the experience.

People read books and watch movies about things that they would never wish to
experience in real life. They enjoy reading about them and watching them, but
they don't want any reality behind it.

But would I swap my racing pulse for the safety and comfort of my simulator?
Never!

I find a racing pulse to be a distraction. There is much about flying to
appreciate, and having one's thoughts clouded by adrenalin ruins many of those
things. It's hard to appreciate the beauty of the Rocky Mountains when you
are hurtling towards them uncontrollably.

Have you ever seen trapeze artists perform without a safety net? It
costs more to watch them perform without safety nets. Why? Because
people pay more when the stakes are real. Similarly it costs more to
fly in real life than in a simulator because the stakes are real.

No, it costs more in real life than in a simulator simply because it is real
life, and the expensive parts cannot be deleted.

I'm surprised so many people mention the danger of flying as an attraction.
They must be high in testosterone. Personally, I think that if you feel
yourself at risk or in danger while flying, you're doing something wrong.

I hope airline pilots don't feel this way.

Depends on what you mean by cost-effective. I would not trade my 100+
hrs in the air for anything. There is no question that sims are
amazing and can be used as training aids very effectively but they
cannot make me sweat or feel nervous or make my pulse race.. which is
why I don't take them seriously except to marvel at the progress
technology has made.

So you are a thrillseeker. Quite a few GA pilots seem to be thrillseekers.
But we know what the safety experts say about them, don't we?

In my view, if my pulse is racing and I'm sweating, I've failed as a pilot.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Mxsmanic wrote:

In my view, if my pulse is racing and I'm sweating, I've failed as a
pilot.

Don't worry, you don't have a pulse. You've failed as a ****ing human
being.
Now just go away, find some other virtual sandbox to play in..........

Mxsmanic wrote:
In my case, I consider going to and from the airport to be boring.

I find breathing to be quite boring, as well. May I please have a
simulator where I can pretend to carry out aerobic metabolism without
those nasty boring bits like breathing, eating, or excreting waste?


I consider
not being close to home at the end of a flight to be hugely inconvenient.

Assuming that you don't live in the middle of a large bog (as trolls are
wont to do, I'm told), there's a GA airport within walking distance of
your house. Promise.

I
consider paying $250 an hour for each hour of flight to be very stressful.

When I did my training, I was paying $80/hour, wet. One of my good
friends knew an owner and could get $39/hour, wet. Hell, I was only
paying $137/hour at ERAU, and THAT was the high price at the field.
$250/hour will get you something between a twin and a turboprop, wet.

Of course, you should learn the golden concept of pro rata. Bring a few
of your good friends along (you DO have friends, right?), and suddenly
that 250 is only $83 and change.

I
consider having to spend thousands of dollars and trudge through endless
paperwork just to be allowed to fly to be unacceptably onerous.

See the above. If putting your name and home address on a form is too
difficult, it's a wonder how you managed to get Usenet access in the
first place.

I consider a
requirement that one be in Olympic condition to get a license to be an
unnecessary burden.

I think you will find that many pilots are hardly Olympic-class
athletes. More like "healthy and generally not covered in green, scaly
warts".

I consider the inaccessibility of ownership of an
aircraft to be a major disappointment.

Something like 75% of all GA pilots either rent or have a fractional
ownership, neither of which is impossible (or even improbable) on even a
modest income.

I consider the possibility of being
killed to be an uncomfortably high risk.

You could die right now, reading this post. BAM, brain aneurysm (caused,
no doubt, by the sudden ingestion of too much logic). They'll find you
two weeks later, clutched over the keyboard, your body offering up the
most odoriferous effluence imaginable.

I consider the absence of bathrooms
on some aircraft to be a major inconvenience.

I told you to go before we left!

I'm surprised by how many people
cannot successfully take off or land in a simulator. This includes some
pilots, or at least the ones who have become dependent on physical sensations

.... or it indicates how important those sensations really are to the art
and style of flying (which you have wholeheartedly discounted, not
actually having felt them yourself). Flying is not all numbers and
formulas, do X and Y will always result, a cold calculation done in head
to achieve an unerring sum. There's a feel to this sort of thing.

Simulation only works if you take it seriously.

So does life, oddly enough.

The same type of personality that blows off
checklists in simulation because "it's not real life, anyway," may also do the
same thing in real life, with some similar dismissal as rationalization.

Or perhaps it is that some people are able to distinguish between
virtual existence and the corporeal world, and understand that their
actions in one do not affect the outcome in the other.

Also, patently false generalizations by non-qualified personnel FTL.

Reality might also be the least desirable part of the experience.

And yet reality is what the simulation (and similarly, the "serious" sim
pilot) strives for, in all dealings. So, no, if anything, simulations
should be MORE like real flying.

They enjoy reading about them and watching them, but
they don't want any reality behind it.

Reading a good murder mystery doesn't make you any more a detective than
flying a virtual 737 makes you qualified to offer edicts on procedure or
operation.

It's hard to appreciate the beauty of the Rocky Mountains when you
are hurtling towards them uncontrollably.

Which is, oddly enough, why pilots spend all that time doing that
"training" lark, so that they can keep from doing any hurtling, much
less uncontrollably so.

---
Mxsmanic wrote:

There's nothing magic about being a real pilot

Not that you would know, being a feckless, cross/troll-posting,
arrogant, venomous, whingebag shut-in, without the stones to partake in
what he's "trying" to "simulate".

There, now your defeat is signatory on BOTH NG's. I couldn't possibly
have imagined the depth and breadth of your utter foolishness could
extend as far as it does here. "Surely, they're exaggerating" "He
couldn't be that stupid, could he?", I said to myself.

The rumors were true.

TheSmokingGnu

TheSmokingGnu writes:

I find breathing to be quite boring, as well. May I please have a
simulator where I can pretend to carry out aerobic metabolism without
those nasty boring bits like breathing, eating, or excreting waste?

I don't know any way of avoiding these things; if I did, you can be sure that
I would have eliminated them by now.

Assuming that you don't live in the middle of a large bog (as trolls are
wont to do, I'm told), there's a GA airport within walking distance of
your house. Promise.

The nearest airport is about 15 miles away. That's a five-hour walk, and
while I've been known to walk for longer than that at a stretch, it's too
inconvenient to count.

When I did my training, I was paying $80/hour, wet. One of my good
friends knew an owner and could get $39/hour, wet. Hell, I was only
paying $137/hour at ERAU, and THAT was the high price at the field.
$250/hour will get you something between a twin and a turboprop, wet.

I presume you don't live in Europe.

Of course, you should learn the golden concept of pro rata. Bring a few
of your good friends along (you DO have friends, right?), and suddenly
that 250 is only $83 and change.

And what are my friends going to do while I'm flying?

See the above. If putting your name and home address on a form is too
difficult, it's a wonder how you managed to get Usenet access in the
first place.

Unfortunately, it's much more than putting a name and address on a form.

I think you will find that many pilots are hardly Olympic-class
athletes. More like "healthy and generally not covered in green, scaly
warts".

Many of them are in poor condition, I'm sure. But the medical doesn't address
fitness, it addresses a long list of imaginary issues.

Something like 75% of all GA pilots either rent or have a fractional
ownership, neither of which is impossible (or even improbable) on even a
modest income.

That proves my point. Most people don't rent or have fractional ownership of
their cars.

You could die right now, reading this post. BAM, brain aneurysm (caused,
no doubt, by the sudden ingestion of too much logic). They'll find you
two weeks later, clutched over the keyboard, your body offering up the
most odoriferous effluence imaginable.

Pulling negative Gs at altitude would greatly increase that probability.

But the real risk is that of an accident.

I told you to go before we left!

After three hours or so, it's time to go again, depending on many variables.

... or it indicates how important those sensations really are to the art
and style of flying ...

Except that they aren't, as IFR flight proves, and as the accidents of pilots
flying in IMC without special training amply demonstrates. Not only are the
largely unnecessary, but they are often worse than unnecessary, because they
are distracting and misleading.

... (which you have wholeheartedly discounted, not
actually having felt them yourself).

I have felt them myself. I've been in a plane, just not at the controls. But
the whole plane moves, not just the cockpit.

Flying is not all numbers and formulas ...

That depends on the flying environment. It's a lot more numbers and formulas
than seat of the pants.

... do X and Y will always result, a cold calculation done in head
to achieve an unerring sum. There's a feel to this sort of thing.

I do not share this romantic illusion.

And yet reality is what the simulation (and similarly, the "serious" sim
pilot) strives for, in all dealings.

With certain key omissions. A perfect simulation of reality would not be a
simulation, nor would it serve much purpose.

Reading a good murder mystery doesn't make you any more a detective than
flying a virtual 737 makes you qualified to offer edicts on procedure or
operation.

Try me. I wouldn't mind a few hours in a 737 simulator. Specifically, a
737-800. I'm working on the 747-400.

Which is, oddly enough, why pilots spend all that time doing that
"training" lark, so that they can keep from doing any hurtling, much
less uncontrollably so.

Then why do so many of them crash?

Not that you would know, being a feckless, cross/troll-posting,
arrogant, venomous, whingebag shut-in, without the stones to partake in
what he's "trying" to "simulate".

There, now your defeat is signatory on BOTH NG's.

Well, at least you made me smile.

I couldn't possibly
have imagined the depth and breadth of your utter foolishness could
extend as far as it does here. "Surely, they're exaggerating" "He
couldn't be that stupid, could he?", I said to myself.

In contrast, I could have easily predicted the tone and perhaps even the words
of your post. I'm used to it.

--
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"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
Of course, you should learn the golden concept of pro rata. Bring a few
of your good friends along (you DO have friends, right?), and suddenly
that 250 is only $83 and change.

And what are my friends going to do while I'm flying?

ROFLMAO! Go on! Name one! Assuming you do pull a name that you, at least,
consider a friend, he'd do exactly what he does at your place while you sim
fly!

Most people don't rent or have fractional ownership of
their cars.

A LOT of people a re paying off cars. They call it Hire Purchase.

Crash Lander

Crash Lander writes:

ROFLMAO! Go on! Name one! Assuming you do pull a name that you, at least,
consider a friend, he'd do exactly what he does at your place while you sim
fly!

You haven't answered my question: What are my friends (who supposedly chipped
in for the cost of a flight) going to do while I'm flying?

--
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"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
You haven't answered my question: What are my friends (who supposedly
chipped
in for the cost of a flight) going to do while I'm flying?

Well, heaven forbid they would use the time to have a conversation with you!
Possibly even maybe enjoy the scenery? You know! The kind of things 'normal'
people do!
Crash Lander

Crash Lander writes:

Well, heaven forbid they would use the time to have a conversation with you!

Indeed. If I'm paying $250 an hour to fly a tin can, I don't want to waste
money on conversation with friends, which I can undertake for free at just
about any time.

Possibly even maybe enjoy the scenery?

While they either freeze or roast in the cabin, and as their hearing is
destroyed by the noise.

--
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On Feb 25, 10:54 pm, Mxsmanic wrote: brevity
snip

You haven't answered my question:

Your questions have never been answered to your satisfaction, probably
because you suffer symptoms of Asperger's Syndrome, among other anti-
social ailments.

What are my friends (who supposedly chipped
in for the cost of a flight) going to do while I'm flying?

Let them supposedly jackoff on the back of your neck. Who gives a
****?
------

- gpsman

gpsman writes:

Your questions have never been answered to your satisfaction, probably
because you suffer symptoms of Asperger's Syndrome, among other anti-
social ailments.

Sometimes I've received satisfactory answers. But in other cases (such as
this one), there apparently has been no one qualified to provide answers.

Let them supposedly jackoff on the back of your neck.

An odd suggestion, and difficult for a girl to carry out.

Who gives a ****?

It wasn't my suggestion.

--
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