Vehicular Ramp Access

No, in fact I've been happily surprised how many larger (including
airline and military co-use) airports still allow me to drive my
rental car up to the plane. They probably understand that we are not a
threat.

Agreed. Best of all, common sense seems to have reared its ugly head
again, nationwide, since 9/11.

Right after the terrortist attacks on New York and Washington, nearly
everyone restricted drive-on traffic at airports. Now, on our recent
trip across the country (WV, NC, SC, AL, TN, MS), we were once again
able to pick up our rental cars right at our airplane at every airport
we visited.

I'm sorry to see Marco's airport going the other way, against the
grain.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message

Agreed. Best of all, common sense seems to have reared its ugly head
again, nationwide, since 9/11.

Right after the terrortist attacks on New York and Washington, nearly
everyone restricted drive-on traffic at airports. Now, on our recent
trip across the country (WV, NC, SC, AL, TN, MS), we were once again
able to pick up our rental cars right at our airplane at every airport
we visited.

I'm sorry to see Marco's airport going the other way, against the
grain.

The timing is what makes it all suspect. There hasn't been any significant
events that would prompt such an action. It can be argued that the Cory
Lidle crash was one but that can be argued by both sides quite convincingly.

The Airport Director keeps citing the "security experts" as "they" refuse to
name them but will only divulge that they are on the "state" level. Yeah,
OK..experts.

The max payload that any plane on the ramp can easily be stuffed into a
couple of suitcases (if it's dense enough, only one) that can be rolled
across the ramp with nary a suspicious glance. That goes for bad people as
well. The thing is, I think most if not all of the tenants will be open to a
significant increase in security short of the complete denial of vehicular
access. I even think there will be little pushback if they made us foot the
bill for vehicle passes (they have a gate system already and would just need
new card readers). It seems illogical that they would cause a firestorm of
resentment and probably a host of lawsuits when they could avoid it by
coordinating a common solution that will still maintain virtually the same
target level of security.

Unless, of course, there are other factors at play here...

Marco

These things have a rhythm and cycle.. The Bush administration is now
having the courts finally move against some the the decisions they
made early on, so 6 to 8 years is aobut what it takes for these things
to wind through the judicial system...

What it will take for GA to loosen the shackles of the tyranny of the
Patriot Act is someone with the money and determination to make a
court challenge against an airport authority on either constitutional
grounds or of simply not having the authority to arbitrarily restrict
the access of legitimate users of public spaces when there has not
been a single incident of having vehicle access to the ramp having
caused a terrorist incident...
The plaintiff will lose in the lower courts (they almost always side
with government/city hall) but the superior courts tend to take a
longer view and sooner or later some federal judge will vaguely
remember that powers not specifically allocated to the government are
reserved to the people gosh, what a surprise and that discriminating
against vehicle access by pilots while allowing limo drivers, etc., is
discrimination by class of person, etc...

denny

On Mar 21, 8:47 am, "Denny" wrote:

What it will take for GA to loosen the shackles of the tyranny of the
Patriot Act is someone with the money and determination to make a
court challenge against an airport authority on either constitutional
grounds or of simply not having the authority to arbitrarily restrict
the access of legitimate users of public spaces when there has not
been a single incident of having vehicle access to the ramp having
caused a terrorist incident...

Hmmm, how did you go from GA ramp access to Patriot Act. The ability
to listen to terrorist place calls to Iran has nothing to do with ramp
access. How in the world do you find the Patriot Act affecting ramp
access?

-Robert

Jay Honeck wrote:

No, in fact I've been happily surprised how many larger (including
airline and military co-use) airports still allow me to drive my
rental car up to the plane. They probably understand that we are not a
threat.


Agreed. Best of all, common sense seems to have reared its ugly head
again, nationwide, since 9/11.

Right after the terrortist attacks on New York and Washington, nearly
everyone restricted drive-on traffic at airports. Now, on our recent
trip across the country (WV, NC, SC, AL, TN, MS), we were once again
able to pick up our rental cars right at our airplane at every airport
we visited.


Here in Montana we didn't change one iota. If you could drive on the
airport before you still can. No new fences, no new locks, no new rules.

MHT went through this process starting about 8-9 years ago, basically
coincident with MHT becoming a viable alternative to BOS. We used to have
free access to ramps. Then access was permitted by airport-issued passcard.
Somewhat inconvenient, but given the possibility that someone COULD drive
onto the ramp and then onto an active runway, and there were big aircraft on
said runway, not a big deal. Cars had to meet certain insurance
requirements, and cars had to display airport-issued stickers.

Then 9/11 happened. Current situation is tht I can still get my vehicle on
the field (to plow, do maintenance, or carry luggage) but I must call the
communications center and the gate must be opened for me. My vehicle is
occasionally subject to inspection, and still must meet insurance,
registration, and sticker requirements.

Bottom line - not as nice as it used to be, but not too terrible. Biggest
issue is the occasional need to wait 10-15 minutes for access. Normally not
that long. Give there are probably 100-125 part 135 operations/day, keeping
a craze-o from doing something terrible needs attention.
"Marco Leon" wrote in message
...
In the interest of security, our airport management wants to ban all
automobile access to our aircraft at Republic Airport (KFRG). It was the
hot topic of discussion during our last tenant meeting on 3/14--a meeting
with the largest turnout of pilots since its inception. Interestingly,
other topics on the agenda for discussion that would normally cause
consternation went unopposed (increase of tiedown fees by $35/month, photo
ID badge implementation for all pilots, and various large-aircraft centric
construction projects to name a few). I don't rule out the notion that
this issue was a strategy to get the others pushed through (if it was,
brilliant!)

This is a complicated issue with what seems to be many motives at play.
The general feeling among the small aircraft GA pilots is that management
is looking to turn the airport into a bizjet mecca like Teterboro. This
hardly surprising since they are both run by the same management company.
Many of the tenants also think that the denial of access is just another
ploy to make the airport more attractive to bizjet operators.

AOPA is involved and has sent them a letter outlining reasons why owners
need access to their aircraft and the little (and arguably DECREASED)
security issues it poses. Lots of rational, relevant, and passionate calls
for a cooperative approach to a solution by the pilots and I was
pleasantly surprised by the lack of disrespect during the 2-hour meeting
attended by about 100 interested parties. Kind of reminded me of this
newsgroup--minus the outlying rude ones.

If anyone has experienced a similar situation at their own airport I'd
love to hear what happened. From what AOPA has told us though, this has
some unique (and arguably inevitable) security aspects that may serve as
the precedent for other airports in the US going forward.

Here's a link to the AOPA letter:
http://download.aopa.org/epilot/2007...4ny-letter.pdf

Marco

"pgbnh" wrote in message

Then 9/11 happened. Current situation is tht I can still get my vehicle on
the field (to plow, do maintenance, or carry luggage) but I must call the
communications center and the gate must be opened for me. My vehicle is
occasionally subject to inspection, and still must meet insurance,
registration, and sticker requirements.

Bottom line - not as nice as it used to be, but not too terrible. Biggest
issue is the occasional need to wait 10-15 minutes for access. Normally
not that long. Give there are probably 100-125 part 135 operations/day,
keeping a craze-o from doing something terrible needs attention.

Your situation sounds similar to something I suggested during the meeting.
If they were worried about the people they might be "sneaking" in via the
cars, then make everyone declare their "passengers" either electronically or
verbally upon entry and execute random spot checks on their declarations.
This would also include checks on automobile storage areas. Currently, the
gates close at 7 PM and owners need to go through another camera-equipped
gate and talk to an operations person to gain access. They ask for visual
confirmation of the car pass and can see whoever you bring along. To make us
declare the number of passengers would be a simple next step and they could
have a video recording of them as well. In other words, if they can't
visually count the two guys you claim as passengers, then they don't let you
in.

There's a myriad of possibilities and I hope they cooperate before making a
decision.

Marco

"Marco Leon" wrote in message
...
... Your situation sounds similar to something I suggested during the
meeting. If they were worried about the people they might be "sneaking" in
via the cars, then make everyone declare their "passengers" either
electronically or verbally upon entry and execute random spot checks on
their declarations.
...

They are worried that I might put five people in a Luscombe?

I don't get it.

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

Marco Leon wrote:
If anyone has experienced a similar situation at their own airport I'd
love to hear what happened.

FWIW, I might be experiencing something in the same direction at Jones-
Riverside (KRVS) in Tulsa. One afternoon, I was riding my bicycle around
the vehicle roads on the airport (not on the taxiways or on the ramp)
and was stopped by a Tulsa Airport Authority security person. He
informed me that unless I worked at the airport, I had to stay on the
perimeter road and not ride up by the FBOs, flight schools, hangars, etc.
He also said that someone in the control tower had alerted him to my
presence. I found this odd because I'd ridden on the same roads at least
half a dozen times since summer 2006 - sometimes right past the TAA
security people - and got, at most, a friendly wave. I have contacted
TAA about it, but have not yet gotten a response; I'll post back if I
find anything interesting.

Matt Roberds

Read the original post in a state of sleep deprivation, missed the
fact you stated the perimeter road is on airport property... The
perimeter roads for the majority of GA airports I inhabit are public,
so my mind set was in that direction...
Sorry, but you will likely have to do it their way on airport property
for now...
The rest of my post stands as is...

I noticed a federal court just struck down internet porn filter
regulations promulgated by the Bush administration related to our
topic by being another set of federal regulations rammed down our
throats by zealots... I would not have predicted this outcome for
that suit, but it is refreshing to see the court take the stand that
it is the parents LEGAL responsibility to MONITOR and CONTROL their
children, not the school's, not the library's, etc. and that the
government does not have the constitutional power to reallocate that
responsibility to third parties......

"What, you expect me to watch my nasty little spawn of satan! Why
should I have to do it? What do I pay taxes for?"

Absolutely priceless...

The whole point of this is that the majority of regulations strangling
GA airports cannot withstand a determined court challenge - including
being harassed for riding a bicycle...

denny