Twenty minutes in the queue awaiting the new and improved FSS

On Wed, 02 May 2007 02:18:29 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote in
. net:


Why do you CALL for a briefing at all?

In addition to other reasons, because in the event of a TFR PD, FSS
personnel may be culpable as well as the pilot if they failed to brief
the TFR, thus mitigating pilot culpability.

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
news

In addition to other reasons, because in the event of a TFR PD, FSS
personnel may be culpable as well as the pilot if they failed to brief
the TFR, thus mitigating pilot culpability.


A telephone briefing that misses a TFR would mitigate pilot culpability but
an internet briefing that misses a TFR would not mitigate pilot culpability?
Why would that be?

On Wed, 02 May 2007 22:35:31 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote in
.net:


"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
news

In addition to other reasons, because in the event of a TFR PD, FSS
personnel may be culpable as well as the pilot if they failed to brief
the TFR, thus mitigating pilot culpability.


A telephone briefing that misses a TFR would mitigate pilot culpability but
an internet briefing that misses a TFR would not mitigate pilot culpability?
Why would that be?


If the pilot misses the TFR NOTAM in the DUATS briefing, s/he bears
sole blame for it. If the TFR NOTAM is omitted from either the verbal
or DUATS type of briefing, I would expect it to mitigate the pilots
culpability in the event of a PD. In my experience, it's easier for a
pilot to overlook a single NOTAM among the plethora in a DUATS
briefing, but the live briefer briefs only those NOTAMS that are
pertinent to the flight so the relevant TFRs are not buried in the
clutter of irrelevant NOTAMS.

Of course, this issue will soon be moot when LocMart phases in the
computerized voice to deliver the telephone briefings of the future.

"Speak or say 'one' for a full briefing. Speak or say 'two' for
an updated briefing. Using the touch-tone pad enter the
departure airport identifier. ...."

In the name of reduced costs, the continuing trend of automation
replacing wet-ware will continue until the accident rate starts
increasing. Wile computers are less likely to make errors than
people, it is the people who program the computers, so that expected
increase in accuracy will likely not be achieved.

On 5/1/2007 10:06:23 PM, "Kyle Boatright" wrote:

If waits are going to be this long and longer, are there any other viable
options to A) Get a briefing and B) Have a record of the briefing? I can
satisfy "A" through the internet, but I'm not sure an online brief would
stand up very well in my defense if I busted a pop-up TFR or something,
especially since (presumably) there might not be a viable record of my
online brief.

DUATs.com or DUAT.com are the two other "official" flight briefing choices
that will record your session, from what I understand.

--
Peter

"Peter R." wrote in message
...
On 5/1/2007 10:06:23 PM, "Kyle Boatright" wrote:

If waits are going to be this long and longer, are there any other viable
options to A) Get a briefing and B) Have a record of the briefing? I can
satisfy "A" through the internet, but I'm not sure an online brief would
stand up very well in my defense if I busted a pop-up TFR or something,
especially since (presumably) there might not be a viable record of my
online brief.

DUATs.com or DUAT.com are the two other "official" flight briefing choices
that will record your session, from what I understand.

And "unnofficially" WeatherWorx, WSI and Jeppessen will too, and I believe
(??) thay will will assist you if a legal action results.
--
Matt Barrow
Performace Homes, LLC.
Colorado Springs, CO

"Peter R." wrote in message
...
On 5/1/2007 10:06:23 PM, "Kyle Boatright" wrote:

If waits are going to be this long and longer, are there any other viable
options to A) Get a briefing and B) Have a record of the briefing? I can
satisfy "A" through the internet, but I'm not sure an online brief would
stand up very well in my defense if I busted a pop-up TFR or something,
especially since (presumably) there might not be a viable record of my
online brief.

DUATs.com or DUAT.com are the two other "official" flight briefing choices
that will record your session, from what I understand.

--
Peter

I use DUATs most flights. After getting the full results of the briefing, I
"save as" and change the filename to include the date before exiting the web
browser page. The .html file (mostly text) contains the date and
"transaction number" so I figure that is a fairly good proof that I got a
briefing. I much prefer a personal archive rather than counting on the
DUATS provider or the 'govment to cover my butt.

John Severyn
LVK Livermore, Ca.

"Kyle Boatright" wrote in message
news


I waited 10 minutes for a briefer this afternoon and eventually spoke with
someone in Indiana (I'm in Atlanta). The amazing thing is that the weather
in the Southeast was great today, so 90% of pilot briefings should have
been short and simple - Great VFR, no TFR's, enjoy the ride. Logically,
with a day like today, you wouldn't think calls would need to be
transferred outside the region.

The guy I spoke with at the FSS indicated that calls from West of the
Mississippi are not supposed to be routed to FSS'es east of the
Mississippi, but every 3rd or 4th call he has been taking is from West of
the Mississippi, which really bogs things down here in the East.

If waits are going to be this long and longer, are there any other viable
options to A) Get a briefing and B) Have a record of the briefing? I can
satisfy "A" through the internet, but I'm not sure an online brief would
stand up very well in my defense if I busted a pop-up TFR or something,
especially since (presumably) there might not be a viable record of my
online brief.

I don't know if it would hold up, but a detailed and time stamped print out
of the data should suffice (or maybe not).

WheaterWorx, Jeppesen and WSI have briefing services. Even better, they
have to establish a reputation for timeliness and accuracy that the FSS's
take for granted.

Remember: Ya' gets whats ya' pays for.

On Wed, 2 May 2007 06:20:27 -0700, "Matt Barrow"
wrote in
:

I don't know if it would hold up, but a detailed and time stamped print out
of the data should suffice (or maybe not).

Thanks for clearing that up. :-(

My first experience trying to get a clearance on the ground via
Lockheed today. Weather was very marginal VFR. I normally wait
to get the clearance in the air, but with 1500 broken, I would
have to fly pretty close to Fayetteville before they could hear
me and I just didn't feel comfortable puttering along that low.
Tried the GCO, but no one answered. Plane behind me on taxiway is
asking whether I'm trying GCO. "Yeah, but they're not answering.
I'll try the cell phone." He says, "Yeah, I can't get through either,
but it's always a crapshoot with GCO here." Actually, I usually
have pretty good luck with the GCO, but I've got a nice Lightspeed
headset that I can plug my phone into and WXBRIEF takes me directly
to RDU FSS. Well, it used to...

"Welcome to Lockheed Martin flight services. Please speak your
response at any time..."

"Briefer"

"What state are you departing from?"

"North Carolina"

"I think you said South Carolina. Is that correct?"

"No"

"Please speak your response at any time..."

"Briefer"

"What state are you departing from?"

"North Carolina"

"I think you said North Dakota. Is that correct?"

"No"

"Please speak...."

Finally they seem to break through my pseudo southern drawl.

"Hi. I'm Dan Corrain, the Lockheed Martin Flight Service Program
Manager. I am very aware that you are currently experiencing unacceptable
wait times..."

this message from Dan continues for about two minutes. I have no idea
whether this would get interrupted by a briefer or whether they
are so certain that I can't get an answer in that time that they
feel they may as well make me listen to an apology as Muzak...
Fifteen minutes pass.

Guy behind me: "Did you get through?"

Me: "I'm on hold"

"Me too..."

Five more minutes.

"Macon flight service"

"Um, N2325Q on the ground at Sanford, North Carolina. I'd like to pick
up my IFR clearance to Sierra Uniform Tango."

"Hold on... uh... I need to transfer..mumble mumble mumble..."

30 seconds of nothing.

Me: "Hello"

Macon: "Yeah, hold on, I'm trying to find the number for Raleigh. You
didn't do anything wrong, but they sent you to the wrong controller..."

Guy behind me: "I'm going leave VFR, can you move off the taxiway?"

Me (to the guy behind me): "Yeah, I'm still trying to get a clearance"

Macon: "Sir, I'm trying to get you that, please hold on"

Me: "I was talking to the plane behind me, he's going to leave VFR"

Macon: "Are you leaving VFR?"

Me: "Negative, I had to exit the taxi way to let the plane behind me
leave VFR".

Macon: "Ah... ok..." click.. buzzzz... dial...

"Raleigh Flight Service."

"N2325Q on the ground at Sanford...."

"Hold for your clearance..."

5 minutes later, the line goes dead. Am I going to go through that
again? No. ASOS is now saying 2000 broken. Good enough for me.

Hooray for privitization. The free market Peter Principle is in
full swing. And 45 minutes of my 400 minutes a month cell phone
time gone into the ether.

--
Don Poitras

"Don Poitras" wrote in message
...


Hooray for privitization. The free market Peter Principle is in
full swing. And 45 minutes of my 400 minutes a month cell phone
time gone into the ether.

You should get a government cell phone.

And call your local DMV or Post Office.