New trainer from SZD Bielsko

Sally W wrote:

But surely only the ones with winch experience teach
winch launching? So it's not an issue? And surely
no-one goes from aerotow to winching without getting
some instruction?

Correction:

You probably haven't spent much time in the United States 8^)

On Jun 26, 7:04 pm, Marc Ramsey wrote:
Sally W wrote:
But surely only the ones with winch experience teach
winch launching? So it's not an issue? And surely
no-one goes from aerotow to winching without getting
some instruction?

Correction:

You probably haven't spent much time in the United States 8^)

If you are telling me that there are instructors teaching winch
launching in the US who don't know what they are doing, and people
trying it with no prior instruction, you are putting me off ever
flying in the US big time. Surely you folks over there have a better-
developed sense of self-preservation?

"Sally W" wrote in message
...
But surely only the ones with winch experience teach
winch launching? So it's not an issue? And surely
no-one goes from aerotow to winching without getting
some instruction?


I'm sure that it's a rare situation. Fortunately, there is a lot of good
guidance on the web about winch proceedures from various national aero clubs
and quite a few instructors who read this guidance.

Bill Daniels

On Jun 26, 8:57 pm, "Bill Daniels" bildan@comcast-dot-net wrote:
"Sally W" wrote in message

...

But surely only the ones with winch experience teach
winch launching? So it's not an issue? And surely
no-one goes from aerotow to winching without getting
some instruction?

I'm sure that it's a rare situation.

I hope it's as rare as flying pigs.


Fortunately, there is a lot of good
guidance on the web about winch proceedures from various national aero clubs
and quite a few instructors who read this guidance.

And I'd hope the instructors have been doing a bit more than reading
the Internet for guidance.

Bill Daniels wrote:
"Sally W" wrote in message
...
But surely only the ones with winch experience teach
winch launching? So it's not an issue? And surely
no-one goes from aerotow to winching without getting
some instruction?


I'm sure that it's a rare situation. Fortunately, there is a lot of good
guidance on the web about winch proceedures from various national aero clubs
and quite a few instructors who read this guidance.

As you know, the training of the majority of winch qualified pilots
(i.e., those with a ground launch endorsement) here in the US consisted
of pulling a rusty underpowered Gerhlein out from behind a hangar,
plopping the transitioning pilot in the front seat of a nose hook
equipped 2-33, then three flights: pilot follows instructor on controls,
instructor follows pilot on controls, instructor signs off pilot, pilot
flies a solo launch.

There are several clubs that now use winches as their primary launch
method, and they take instruction (and safety) much more seriously.
But, much of the resistance to increased use of winches in the US comes
as a reaction to these past (for the most part) "training" activities...

Marc

At 15:54 27 June 2007, Bruce wrote:
Mike Lindsay wrote:
In article , Ian
wri
That's why the BGA has every ab initio in the UK religiously
checking the flaps on a K13 every time they launch.

My God! (that's the religious bit)

I don't think I've ever seen a K13 with flaps.
True, but they check them just in case...

And they are checked in a K21...

Sally W wrote:
At 15:54 27 June 2007, Bruce wrote:
Mike Lindsay wrote:
In article , Ian
wri
That's why the BGA has every ab initio in the UK religiously
checking the flaps on a K13 every time they launch.

My God! (that's the religious bit)

I don't think I've ever seen a K13 with flaps.
True, but they check them just in case...

And they are checked in a K21...

....and in an SZD Junior, Discus and Pegasus at my club, at least
by me - and in my Standard Libelle.

I see no reason to deviate from the standard CBSIFTCBE checklist,
so "Flaps: not fitted" accompanied by a glance to see that there
is indeed no flap handle is part of my checklist for a non-flapped
glider.

This has the benefit of keeping instructors happy on check rides
without straining my brain to remember what checklist is expected as
compared with what I might do or say when no instructor is present.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

"Martin Gregorie" wrote in message
...
Sally W wrote:
I see no reason to deviate from the standard CBSIFTCBE checklist,
so "Flaps: not fitted" accompanied by a glance to see that there
is indeed no flap handle is part of my checklist for a non-flapped
glider.

This has the benefit of keeping instructors happy on check rides
without straining my brain to remember what checklist is expected as compared
with what I might do or say when no instructor is present.

Perhaps it is just the way that my mind works, but I have to respectfully
disagree.

If you fly something with fixed gear for your first 1000 flights, each time
dutifully reciting something unnecessary like "UNDERCARRIAGE" and each time
DOING NOTHING but just skipping on to the next item, then when you finally get
in something with retractable gear, you are liable to do the same thing you have
always done and land gear up as a result. I believe that checklists should be
ideally posted in the cockpit and should be made specific to each aircraft so
that each step on the list has real meaning each and every time.


Vaughn

Vaughn Simon wrote:
"Martin Gregorie" wrote in message
...
Sally W wrote:
I see no reason to deviate from the standard CBSIFTCBE checklist,
so "Flaps: not fitted" accompanied by a glance to see that there
is indeed no flap handle is part of my checklist for a non-flapped
glider.

This has the benefit of keeping instructors happy on check rides
without straining my brain to remember what checklist is expected as compared
with what I might do or say when no instructor is present.

Perhaps it is just the way that my mind works, but I have to respectfully
disagree.

If you fly something with fixed gear for your first 1000 flights, each time
dutifully reciting something unnecessary like "UNDERCARRIAGE" and each time
DOING NOTHING but just skipping on to the next item, then when you finally get
in something with retractable gear, you are liable to do the same thing you have
always done and land gear up as a result. I believe that checklists should be
ideally posted in the cockpit and should be made specific to each aircraft so
that each step on the list has real meaning each and every time.

Isn't that a different situation?

I regard it as different because, unlike the pre-landing checks, its
done on the ground and without anything like the same time pressure to
complete it and without competing claims on your attention.

I was never taught a pre-landing checklist for just the reasons you
give. When I was flying an ASW-20 I taught myself to use WUF (Water,
u/c, flaps) as a pre-landing check. Now I have an early Std Libelle (not
B series, so no water) I've reverted to no mnemonic checklist because U
seems a bit silly. In any case the club flying orders now say that the
u/c should be lowered and a radio call made as soon as you decide to
join the circuit, which is much too early for the only other checklist
item (trimming for the approach). A second radio call is made at high
key and trim for landing toward the end of the downwind leg, so there's
really no point when a more formal checklist should be run.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |