Bad Engrish?

Cubdriver usenet AT danford DOT net writes:

Indeed, there was quite a fuss a year or two ago when controllers at
Charles de Gaulle demanded that American and British pilots speak in
French.

Are you confusing France and Québec?

On Sun, 1 Jul 2007 11:31:38 +0200, Wolfgang Schwanke
wrote:

Indeed, there was quite a fuss a year or two ago when controllers at
Charles de Gaulle demanded that American and British pilots speak in
French.

Unless I missed that news item, you may be mixing some facts up. They
are speaking in French to French crews and English to everyone else.

No, they spoke to the English-speaking flight crews in French. That
was the cause of the celebre.

Blue skies! -- Dan Ford

Claire Chennault and His American Volunteers, 1941-1942
forthcoming from HarperCollins www.flyingtigersbook.com

"Dallas" wrote in message
...

Scary.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWDEIvjwaFU


Bad situation but I was amused that the person who produced the video felt
it necessary to provide subtitles for the ATC as well.

Richard writes:

Bad situation but I was amused that the person who produced the video felt
it necessary to provide subtitles for the ATC as well.

Maybe it was just for the sake of consistency or political correctness.

Radio communication is often hard to understand for the uninitiated. Even
experienced users often make mistakes, unfortunately.

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

Richard writes:

Bad situation but I was amused that the person who produced the video
felt it necessary to provide subtitles for the ATC as well.

Maybe it was just for the sake of consistency or political
correctness.

Radio communication is often hard to understand for the uninitiated.
Even experienced users often make mistakes, unfortunately.



How would you know?

You don't fly


Bertie

On 2007-06-28 23:31:51 -0700, "Richard" said:


"Dallas" wrote in message
...

Scary.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWDEIvjwaFU


Bad situation but I was amused that the person who produced the video felt
it necessary to provide subtitles for the ATC as well.



Heh, heh. So did the person who produced this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avcYjTVM7d0
--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

Air China had an incident (I think it was in the late 80's) involving
a 747 bound for LA. The plane lost its outboard engine in flight, and
while the pilots were distracted with the engine shutdown checklist,
the plane slowed down as the autopilot struggled to deal with the
adverse yaw and began to pitch up and apply aileron to attempt to stay
straight and level. By the time the Captain noticed the problem, the
plane had slowed way down. The captain disengaged the autopilot and
applied rudder to straighten out of the nose, which caused a cross-
control situation and an immediate stall. The 747 abruptly snap-
rolled into a split-S, pulling over 10Gs in the process. Damage
included a twisted engine pylon, a crumpled aileron, loss of several
feet of the horizontal stabilizer, and numerous popped rivits. The
damage to the tail was symmetrical.

The pilots regained their orientation as they passed through a cloud
deck at 10,000 feet and recovered to climb back to altitude, unaware
of the extent of the damage to the plane. The controllers contacted
them to see if they were OK (due to the large and sudden altitude
excursion), and they said that they were. Asked if they wanted to
divert to San Francisco, they opted to continue to LA until they were
informed that at least one of the PAX had been injured.

Upon arrival at San Francisco, the FAA impounded the plane to conduct
an investigation, and the Boeing AOG team couldn't touch it until
after almost a month had passed while the investigation was
conducted.

The 747 does not have a G meter. They determined the G force of the
snap-roll by the fact that the flight data recorded had stopped laying
down data during the roll. Concluding that the head had pulled away
from the tape in the data recorder, they put the unit in a centrifuge
and spun it until the head pulled away from the tape at about 10Gs.

The Air China captain didn't understand what had happened until the
tapes were replayed in a simulator, at which point he was reportedly
quite shocked.

I originally heard the story from Jack Hessburg, chief mechanic on the
777 program in an air-carrier operations class that he gave at
Boeing. I also saw a segment on this incident on a TV documentary a
year or two ago...

On Fri, 29 Jun 2007 08:29:40 -0700, deanwil wrote:

The Air China captain didn't understand what had happened until the tapes
were replayed in a simulator, at which point he was reportedly quite
shocked.

I don't understand. The captain was in the plane at the time of the
event, so why would "reliving" the event in a simulator help his
understanding? I'm obviously missing/misunderstanding something.

- Andrew

On Jun 29, 1:37 pm, Andrew Gideon wrote:
On Fri, 29 Jun 2007 08:29:40 -0700, deanwil wrote:
The Air China captain didn't understand what had happened until the tapes
were replayed in a simulator, at which point he was reportedly quite
shocked.

I don't understand. The captain was in the plane at the time of the
event, so why would "reliving" the event in a simulator help his
understanding? I'm obviously missing/misunderstanding something.

- Andrew

Apparently the snap-roll occured so fast that he didn't realize what
exactly had occured or why. The simulator replay allowed him to see
what led up to the event, and how the event actually transpired.
Remember, he had been engaged in the engine shutdown checklist, and
probably wasn't paying a lot of attention to what was happening until
he realize he was in an upset attitude. At least that was my
interpretation when I heard the story originally...

Here is the NTSB report, but it is very brief and doesn't go into the
detail that I heard from the Boeing chief mechanic:
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/GenPDF.asp?...85AA015&rpt=fi

wrote in message ...
Here is the NTSB report, but it is very brief and doesn't go into the
detail that I heard from the Boeing chief mechanic:
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/GenPDF.asp?...85AA015&rpt=fi


Thank you for that summary in your previous post. That fills in a few
questions I had after watching the video on this event. I haven't downloaded
the entire episode, here's the YouTube 10 minute version. Remember this is
for mass TV audience so beware some accuracy holes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeznpFQHbSk