Who Wouldn't You Fly With?

On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 22:54:22 -0400, Dudley Henriques wrote:

I'll usually know
from the way the preflight is handled whether or not I want to fly with
that pilot.

I wish I'd known that. But, from my own experience, I agree: a
problematic preflight is a good indicator of what's to follow.

But I was slow, and the fellow was a friend. The final straw was being a
minute or two from entering a pattern on a 45 to downwind having just
observed someone take off that had indicated he'd be staying in the
pattern. I suggested to my friend that we turn a bit so we'd fall in
behind that plane. My friend demurred, claiming that the [class D] tower
would prevent any collision.

More recently, there was a midair in that downwind with exactly that
scenario. Just to emphasize the point.

There were other symptoms too, looking back at it. The person was (and
probably is) a fine "stick", but just a little too "trusting" of his
environment.

- Andrew

On Jul 11, 7:11 am, Andrew Gideon wrote:

The final straw was being a
minute or two from entering a pattern on a 45 to downwind having just
observed someone take off that had indicated he'd be staying in the
pattern. I suggested to my friend that we turn a bit so we'd fall in
behind that plane. My friend demurred, claiming that the [class D] tower
would prevent any collision.

Isn't that what they're there for? I'm based out of a Class D field,
and if I were in that situation (2 minutes on the 45 with a plane on
the upwind, which I've been in more than a dozen times) I sure
wouldn't take it upon me to sequence myself. At the very least, I'd
ask the controller if he wants me in front, or behind the traffic.
Most likely, the controller would make the upwind guy extend his
upwind, then have him follow me.

buttman wrote:
On Jul 11, 7:11 am, Andrew Gideon wrote:

The final straw was being a
minute or two from entering a pattern on a 45 to downwind having just
observed someone take off that had indicated he'd be staying in the
pattern. I suggested to my friend that we turn a bit so we'd fall in
behind that plane. My friend demurred, claiming that the [class D]
tower would prevent any collision.

Isn't that what they're there for? I'm based out of a Class D field,
and if I were in that situation (2 minutes on the 45 with a plane on
the upwind, which I've been in more than a dozen times) I sure
wouldn't take it upon me to sequence myself. At the very least, I'd
ask the controller if he wants me in front, or behind the traffic.
Most likely, the controller would make the upwind guy extend his
upwind, then have him follow me.

And what happens if the controllers attention is aimed somewhere else for a
moment or he just plan screws up? It is the pilots responsibility to see
and avoid traffic. I'd do exactly what Andrew suggested.

"Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote in message
...
buttman wrote:
On Jul 11, 7:11 am, Andrew Gideon wrote:

The final straw was being a
minute or two from entering a pattern on a 45 to downwind having just
observed someone take off that had indicated he'd be staying in the
pattern. I suggested to my friend that we turn a bit so we'd fall in
behind that plane. My friend demurred, claiming that the [class D]
tower would prevent any collision.

Isn't that what they're there for? I'm based out of a Class D field,
and if I were in that situation (2 minutes on the 45 with a plane on
the upwind, which I've been in more than a dozen times) I sure
wouldn't take it upon me to sequence myself. At the very least, I'd
ask the controller if he wants me in front, or behind the traffic.
Most likely, the controller would make the upwind guy extend his
upwind, then have him follow me.

And what happens if the controllers attention is aimed somewhere else for
a moment or he just plan screws up? It is the pilots responsibility to
see and avoid traffic. I'd do exactly what Andrew suggested.
Ditto! "...claiming that the [class D] tower would prevent any collision.",
is right up there with "Famous last Words".

In a previous article, "Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net said:
Isn't that what they're there for? I'm based out of a Class D field,
and if I were in that situation (2 minutes on the 45 with a plane on
the upwind, which I've been in more than a dozen times) I sure
wouldn't take it upon me to sequence myself. At the very least, I'd
ask the controller if he wants me in front, or behind the traffic.
Most likely, the controller would make the upwind guy extend his
upwind, then have him follow me.

And what happens if the controllers attention is aimed somewhere else for a
moment or he just plan screws up? It is the pilots responsibility to see
and avoid traffic. I'd do exactly what Andrew suggested.

Class D controllers are not responsible for in-air separation, they're
responsible for runway separation. If you expect them to sort it out for
you, you're basically taunting Darwin.


--
Paul Tomblin http://blog.xcski.com/
In 1665 Isaac Newton became discouraged when he fell up a flight of
stairs.

On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 11:29:07 -0500, Gig 601XL Builder wrote:

It is the pilots responsibility to
see and avoid traffic.

Which is why, I admit selfishly, I'll pull behind rather than before. If
I'm behind, I can see the other plane. If I'm before the other plane,
there's this level of trust involved.

Of course, the pilot of the other plane has his own perspective:

After you.
No, after you.
No, please, after you.
...

Laugh

To Buttman: Asking isn't a bad idea (except see my selfish perspective
above). But relying upon class D to provide airborne separation is twice
wrong (regulatory and keep-own-butt-safe-atory).

- Andrew

buttman writes:

Isn't that what they're there for?

Why is it called VFR, again?

On Jul 11, 12:02 pm, Mxsmanic wrote:
buttman writes:
Isn't that what they're there for?

Why is it called VFR, again?

In your case is stands for Virtual Flight Retard.

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

buttman writes:

Isn't that what they're there for?

Why is it called VFR, again?


What's it matter, fjukktard. you don't fly.


Bertie

If you can fly it from the right seat I will go.
I would love to fly right seat with John.
The only way I wont go is if the weather is bad.
"Kyle Boatright" wrote in message
. ..
After one spooky experience several years ago, I am very discriminating
about who I'll fly with.

First, I have to know a pilot well enough to form an opinion about his/her
abilities as a pilot and about the owner's mechanical aptitude and
ability/will to properly maintain the aircraft.

Second, I won't fly with someone if I have a prejudice against the
aircraft they fly. Homebuilt helicopters come to mind.

Third, regardless of the other two checks and balances, the airplane must
appear to be in good condition and have enough recent usage to give some
indication that it is safe for flight.

If I'm not sure about any of the issues, I'll either try to "qualify"
someone or politely decline the offer of a ride. For instance, if someone
I know offers a ride in his beautiful new Stearman restoration, my
question will be... "So how many hours does it have since the ground up
restoration?" Under 25 hours and I'll politely take a rain check.

If John Travolta pulls up in his 707 and asks me to sit right seat.
Thanks, but no. I'd love to go, but don't know enough about him or his
airplane to be comfortable.

What are your criteria and what, if any, flights have you bypassed?

KB