Foolish Buyer Tricks

agreed...

"nrp" wrote in message
ups.com...
I'd think the local FSDO people would be interested in whoever signed
them off as airworthy. If nothing else, that's what the FSDO should
be for.

So does that mean the new owners
can hold the log book signers liable and
responsible for any and all missed problems?
Lou

On Sep 13, 12:31 am, nrp wrote:
I'd think the local FSDO people would be interested in whoever signed
them off as airworthy. If nothing else, that's what the FSDO should
be for.

The FSDO/FAA generally refuses to get involved in business disputes
between mechanics and disgruntled airplane purchasers...
Though the facts in this case are rather interesting...

denny
btw, for us old farts, that is known as a "P51 Annual"...

btw, for us old farts, that is known as a "P51 Annual"...

'Splain, please?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

According to Wikipedia,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parker_51,
the Parker pen company introduced their model 51 in 1941.

The article says,
quote

The pen's resemblance to the sleek fuselage of the P-51 Mustang, a fighter
plane used extensively during the war, had no bearing on its name; but
Parker took advantage of the coincidence by comparing the pen and the plane
in its advertising. Additionally, a pilot who is suspected of falsifying
flight records in his logbook in order to overstate his actual experience is
said to have logged "P-51 hours," relying on the ambiguity of the term
"P-51" to avoid directly confronting the suspect.

/quote

That's the story I've heard.

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
oups.com...
btw, for us old farts, that is known as a "P51 Annual"...

'Splain, please?

Just looked at an aircraft to purchase, seller, non pilot selling his
father's glider from the estate. So I cant' blame the seller.
Claims current annual and all ADs complied with.
Annual did not address a revised annual which lowers the max allowable GW,
reduces Vne and other speeds, and places a "no acro" limit on the glider.

So.. who was that IA that signed off that annual? I don't know.. don't
care.. I'm not buying it.
B

"Kyle Boatright" wrote in message
...
The foolish buyer trick I've seen more often than others is the "It comes
with a fresh annual, I don't need a pre-purchase inspection." approach to
airplane buying.

Aargh.

We had an estate auction in this area recently where 4 vintage aircraft
were sold. Unfortunately (for the buyers), the rules of the auction
prevented anything more than a logbook review and a cursory look at the
aircraft. All 4 aircraft sold during the auction at reasonable prices
considering these aircraft had sat for a couple of years and the logbooks
*probably* were not in the best of shape. Although each of the aircraft
came with a fresh annual. ;-)

It is 3 weeks later and three of the four aircraft have not left the nest.
The fourth aircraft did go home with the new owner after a blown
crankshaft seal was replaced. I can't understand how the annual didn't
turn up a blown crankshaft seal.

One of the aircraft still on the field had 50+ squawks when the new owner
gave it the once-over. Now, this was an ongoing restoration project and a
few squawks should have been expected but over 50? With a new annual?
Not acceptable.

Another of the aircraft still on the field wouldn't pass a run-up. Why?
It had been filled with autofuel some time back, not flown or run for a
while, and the fuel system was badly gummed up. Oh, by the way, there is
no autofuel STC for this airplane. Again, this airplane had a fresh
annual.

The other airplane still on the field hasn't had maintenance related
problems, so I guess the owner is probably happy with that. He's probably
not happy that he ground looped it on his first landing. It is undergoing
some minor repairs at this time.

Another foolish buyer trick is buying a fixer-upper. Generally, an
airplane's value is LESS than the sum of its parts. Take a $30k C-172 or
Cherokee, add new paint @ $8k, a new interior @ $5k, a new panel @ $15k,
an engine overhaul @ $15k and you still have an airplane worth $50k or
less despite the $70k+ you've invested.

"Kyle Boatright" wrote in message
...
...
Another foolish buyer trick is buying a fixer-upper. Generally, an
airplane's value is LESS than the sum of its parts. Take a $30k C-172 or
Cherokee, add new paint @ $8k, a new interior @ $5k, a new panel @ $15k,
an engine overhaul @ $15k and you still have an airplane worth $50k or
less despite the $70k+ you've invested.

I don't know about that. My dad went through several fixer-uppers and did
just fine with them. Of course, you can't just hand the aircraft and a
credit card to someone and say "fix it".

Example - $8K for paint??? Most of that cost is prep work which you can do
yourself. I spent more then a few hours stripping paint as a kid. I
particularly remember a Navion - there's a TON of rivet heads to be cleaned
when you strip a Navion... After agreeing on how it was to be painted (I
don't remember the details, but I thing they aggreed to white with some
brown stripes) the old man flew it off somewhere to get the paint sprayed
(and I assume that he did the masking work too). It came back in a real
sharp looking maroon with cream trim paint job...

Overhaul - you have to have a mechanic that will work with you and sign off
on your work. (Pop used to be a crew chief in the Army Air Corps)

It helps if you enjoy doing that kind of work.

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

"Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" The Sea Hawk at wow way d0t com wrote in message
news:t6Odna1iRNU0UHDbnZ2dnUVZ_rGrnZ2d@wideopenwest .com...
"Kyle Boatright" wrote in message
...
...
Another foolish buyer trick is buying a fixer-upper. Generally, an
airplane's value is LESS than the sum of its parts. Take a $30k C-172 or
Cherokee, add new paint @ $8k, a new interior @ $5k, a new panel @ $15k,
an engine overhaul @ $15k and you still have an airplane worth $50k or
less despite the $70k+ you've invested.

I don't know about that. My dad went through several fixer-uppers and did
just fine with them. Of course, you can't just hand the aircraft and a
credit card to someone and say "fix it".


Sweat equity wasn't included in my equation, although some owners put plenty
of it into their aircraft. In my instance, I built my own airplane, so I
know all about sweat equity. And blood equity. And bye-bye girlfriend
equity. However, many people lack the time, skills, or willpower to tackle
a job as big as painting an airplane or rewiring a panel or rebuilding an
engine. And there is nothing wrong with that.

So for those people, it is wise to buy the airplane they want, because it'll
be far cheaper than buying a fixer upper and bringing it up to their
standard.

That's all I was saying...

KB




Example - $8K for paint??? Most of that cost is prep work which you can do
yourself. I spent more then a few hours stripping paint as a kid. I
particularly remember a Navion - there's a TON of rivet heads to be
cleaned when you strip a Navion... After agreeing on how it was to be
painted (I don't remember the details, but I thing they aggreed to white
with some brown stripes) the old man flew it off somewhere to get the
paint sprayed (and I assume that he did the masking work too). It came
back in a real sharp looking maroon with cream trim paint job...

Overhaul - you have to have a mechanic that will work with you and sign
off on your work. (Pop used to be a crew chief in the Army Air Corps)

It helps if you enjoy doing that kind of work.

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.