Listening for Quiet

Airbus writes:

Not surprising that you are not sure, because you are not a pilot. To pilots,
the rules and procedures are clear, and vector departures and arrivals may
route planes over the city.

If only things were so black and white.

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

Airbus writes:

Well that's handy - If you're talking about Paris, France the
arrival and departure procedures are designed to circumnavigate the
city . . .

Yes, but as I said, even when I lived in another city beneath an
arrival path for one of the world's largest airports, I still didn't
hear much.

It used to be entirely forbidden to overfly Paris without special
permission, but now I do see aircraft occasionally flying over the
city. I understand that rules were relaxed some years ago (ironically
not long after 9/11), but at the same time I still see Paris marked as
a prohibited area on the charts, so I'm not sure what the status is
exactly.




Waht?


You're an idiot.


Bertie

daffy wrote:
Quite a good article in the Nov/Dec AARP magazine titled "Listening
for Quiet".
It talks about a silent sanctuary in Washington's Olympic National
park. The article
concluded by someone complaining about the silence broken by a small
plane.

The article said "The small plane flying north more than doubles the
ambient sound,
and we react to the intruder as a threat, drawing in, tracking the
source, hunching for
cover until the last traces of engine noise finally die away."

Right.

I can count several hundred bass thumping
cars and straight pipe motorcycles for
each GA plane I hear...

Sounds like someone has a hair up their
ass.

Jim Stewart writes:

Sounds like someone has a hair up their ass.

Maybe, but such people often vote, and they outnumber you.

On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 17:25:08 -0700, Jim Stewart
wrote in :


Sounds like someone has a hair up their ass.

When an airman is rude publicly to a member of the non-aviation
public, it reflects badly on him as an individual, but it also gives
the public the idea that airman are arrogant elitists who don't care
who they annoy. That is a mistake today more than ever, IMNSHO.

Larry Dighera wrote in
:

When an airman is rude publicly to a member of the non-aviation
public, it reflects badly on him as an individual, but it also gives
the public the idea that airman are arrogant elitists who don't care
who they annoy. That is a mistake today more than ever, IMNSHO.

I think the same holds true even when an airman is rude publicly to another
airman. After all, it is a public forum.

daffy wrote in news:1192143437.833720.51620
@y27g2000pre.googlegroups.com:

Quite a good article in the Nov/Dec AARP magazine titled "Listening
for Quiet".
It talks about a silent sanctuary in Washington's Olympic National
park. The article concluded by someone complaining about the silence broken
by a small plane.

The article said "The small plane flying north more than doubles the
ambient sound,
and we react to the intruder as a threat, drawing in, tracking the
source, hunching for
cover until the last traces of engine noise finally die away."

I believe there are better sanctuaries for silence in the world than a park.
In the 60's, they made a bunch of bomb shelters, and I think they would be a
much better place to find absolute silence if one is searching for that.

On 2007-10-11 15:57:17 -0700, daffy said:

Quite a good article in the Nov/Dec AARP magazine titled "Listening
for Quiet".
It talks about a silent sanctuary in Washington's Olympic National
park. The article
concluded by someone complaining about the silence broken by a small
plane.

The article said "The small plane flying north more than doubles the
ambient sound,
and we react to the intruder as a threat, drawing in, tracking the
source, hunching for
cover until the last traces of engine noise finally die away."

The Olympic National Park covers much of northwestern Washington,
including a great deal of the coast, all of the Olympic Mountains, the
Hoh Rain Forest, and much else. It is bordered by important airports
that serve coastal towns, Indian reservations, and international
travel. There are several airports within the boundaries of the park.
There are also several military training areas in and around the park.
There is a narrow corridor between the park and Sub Base Bangor which
is one of the major routes for traffic flying Canada, the San Juan
Islands, Bremerton, Tacoma, Olympia, and Seattle.

Most aircraft avoid flying over the Olympic Mountains because it is
relatively dangerous, rugged territory prone to unpredictable weather
and icing. Because of the park's location, however, and the fact that
the park is broken into two sections, it is not always possible to fly
a route around the park. It can mean adding several hours to a flight
to go around. Not only that, but bad weather in the Strait of Juan de
Fuca, on the coast, or on Puget Sound can leave you little choice.

Pilots do try to maintain at least 2000' above wild areas as requested
by the National Park Service. However, planes taking off or landing
obviously are going to have to fly lower than 2000.' There are
additional aircraft that fly lower than 2000' for scientific and law
enforcement purposes, as well as search and rescue, fire fighting, and
surveying. Specially equipped airplanes regularly fly at low level over
the park as part of the effort to control our borders, fight smuggling,
and look for terrorist activity. Some areas completely bounded by the
park are managed lands set aside for tree farming. There are aircraft
actively involved in logging there. Boeing and some airlines have been
known to conduct training flights at low altitude over the park.

Aviation is a huge and necessary part of the activity at Olympic
National Park, perhaps more so than any other park in the nation. Many
peoples' lives and much of the health of the park itself are dependent
on it. If you want to get away from airplanes and their noise, Olympic
National Park is a poor choice.

--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

Excellent post.
Proof that pertinent, informational and interesting information can, under
exceptional circumstances, be found on usenet . . .



In article 2007101121031516807-christophercampbell@hotmailcom,
says...


The Olympic National Park covers much of northwestern Washington,
including a great deal of the coast, all of the Olympic Mountains, the
Hoh Rain Forest, and much else. It is bordered by important airports
that serve coastal towns, Indian reservations, and international
travel. There are several airports within the boundaries of the park.
There are also several military training areas in and around the park.
There is a narrow corridor between the park and Sub Base Bangor which
is one of the major routes for traffic flying Canada, the San Juan
Islands, Bremerton, Tacoma, Olympia, and Seattle.

Most aircraft avoid flying over the Olympic Mountains because it is
relatively dangerous, rugged territory prone to unpredictable weather
and icing. Because of the park's location, however, and the fact that
the park is broken into two sections, it is not always possible to fly
a route around the park. It can mean adding several hours to a flight
to go around. Not only that, but bad weather in the Strait of Juan de
Fuca, on the coast, or on Puget Sound can leave you little choice.

Pilots do try to maintain at least 2000' above wild areas as requested
by the National Park Service. However, planes taking off or landing
obviously are going to have to fly lower than 2000.' There are
additional aircraft that fly lower than 2000' for scientific and law
enforcement purposes, as well as search and rescue, fire fighting, and
surveying. Specially equipped airplanes regularly fly at low level over
the park as part of the effort to control our borders, fight smuggling,
and look for terrorist activity. Some areas completely bounded by the
park are managed lands set aside for tree farming. There are aircraft
actively involved in logging there. Boeing and some airlines have been
known to conduct training flights at low altitude over the park.

Aviation is a huge and necessary part of the activity at Olympic
National Park, perhaps more so than any other park in the nation. Many
peoples' lives and much of the health of the park itself are dependent
on it. If you want to get away from airplanes and their noise, Olympic
National Park is a poor choice.

--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

On Oct 11, 9:03 pm, C J Campbell
wrote:

Pilots do try to maintain at least 2000' above wild areas as requested
by the National Park Service. However, planes taking off or landing
obviously are going to have to fly lower than 2000.' There are
additional aircraft that fly lower than 2000' for scientific and law

Where can I find the rules and regulations that specify how high
or low a plane can fly over various terrain, like cities, wilderness,
etc.
Also, is there an easy way from the ground to measure the height
of a flying plane?