$16,619.85

On 30 Dec 2007 08:21:47 GMT, Wolfgang Schwanke wrote:

One downpoint is that you get little information about other parts of
the world, and what you get seems to be wrong.

What can I say, the information I'm getting comes from you guys..

http://tinyurl.com/2onf6n

--
Dallas

Martin Hotze wrote in news:fl8kmi$mnp$1
@kirk.hotze.com:

Dallas schrieb:

One downpoint is that you get little information about other parts of
the world, and what you get seems to be wrong.

What can I say, the information I'm getting comes from you guys..

http://tinyurl.com/2onf6n

ok, I did a quick search and this is what I found (just as an example;
so note that this is only *one* example and not a general situation,
prices do vary):
http://www.valentinis.net/fliegen/download/ulig_ausbildung_2007.pdf
page 11 - I do a quick translation:
----
45 hours w/Katana DV20 incl. CFI
about 95 hours ground school
test preparation
some training materials (not really much, IMHO)
membership (similar to AOPA)
landing fees for about 150 landings
totals EUR 6,666.00


OOOWWWWWW! the devil's type rating.


This isn't going to play well in Jesusland


Bertie

On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 18:32:04 +0100, Martin Hotze wrote:

do you have some other 'facts' than somebody's post in r.a.s?

First place I looked:

http://www.anglianflightcentres.co.uk/prices.html

Assuming best case 45 hours:

45 hours C172 x 121.50 = £ 5,467.00
30 hours instructor x £37 = £ 1.110.00
Total: £ 6,577.50 GBP

$ 13,108.99 USD

Does not include:
One to one ground school with instructor (per hour) £20.00
Fee for the issue of Private Pilots Licence (JAA 5 year) POA
Medical Fee (Depending on age and on ECG Requirements) POA
Landing fee (full member) £5.00
Full Member (annual) £105.00
Proficiency Test £35.00
Skill Test £150.00
R/T test £50.00
IMC test £50.00
PPL Written Exams (each) £20.00

--
Dallas

Wolfgang Schwanke writes:

In continental Europe, you get the same prices but with a ¤ instead of
a £ sign, meaning about 67 percent of the above.

But then comes the exchange rate:

full PPL-A 7,405 EUR

That's nearly $US 11,000.

Still extremely expensive. In France, for 90% of the population, that's more
than four months of salary.

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

Wolfgang Schwanke writes:

In continental Europe, you get the same prices but with a ¤ instead
of a £ sign, meaning about 67 percent of the above.

But then comes the exchange rate:

full PPL-A 7,405 EUR

That's nearly $US 11,000.

Still extremely expensive. In France, for 90% of the population,
that's more than four months of salary.



So? Don't fly then.


Bertie

On 30 Dec 2007 19:26:08 GMT, Wolfgang Schwanke wrote:

London has the highest living costs
Fair enough... I'll concede that it isn't as expensive as I was led to
believe.

*****

landing fees 880 EUR

Wolfgang, would you explain how landing fees work in Europe.

Does the fee apply to every landing, including local training such as touch
and gos?

Who does the accounting in this situation (who counts the landings) ?

Who does the billing/collection of the money?

Are you expected to pay on the day of use or can a towered airport record
your tail number and bill your address?


--
Dallas

On 2007-12-31, Dallas wrote:
landing fees 880 EUR

Wolfgang, would you explain how landing fees work in Europe.

Europe isn't a country - they may not work the same in every European
country. It's a misconception that the EU is a bit like the USA - a
collection of non-sovereign states. Europe is a collection of
independent states, and as such, things work differently in different
countries.

At my airfield, for instance, I've never paid a landing fee (because I'm
based there). Visitors do though.


Does the fee apply to every landing, including local training such as touch
and gos?

Who does the accounting in this situation (who counts the landings) ?

Who does the billing/collection of the money?

Are you expected to pay on the day of use or can a towered airport record
your tail number and bill your address?

All those, at least heere, are up to the airfield. Typically when you
visit an airfield, you'll pay any fees (fuel, landings etc.) before you
depart. Most places I've been, the "FBO" (we don't call them that here)
presents you with a bill with your fuel and any other fees, just like
what happens if you buy fuel at a US airfield (or go to one of the few
US airfields that charge a landing fee).
--
From the sunny Isle of Man.
Yes, the Reply-To email address is valid.

On 1 Jan 2008 16:27:39 GMT, Wolfgang Schwanke wrote:

With my microlight I usually pay 2 to 4 EUR per landing at most rural
airports, rarely more. 2 tonners like C172s pay somewhere between 4 and
10 at the same airports.

Interesting... (if not a bit terrifying to US pilots)

As much as we hate government involvement in general, I think it would be
fair to say that the U.S. subsides GA to encourage it's existence.


Disclaimer:
(But, I'm a new pilot... I don't know how fair that statement is.)

--
Dallas

"Dallas" wrote

As much as we hate government involvement in general, I think it would be
fair to say that the U.S. subsides GA to encourage it's existence.


Disclaimer:
(But, I'm a new pilot... I don't know how fair that statement is.)

I don't think so, and here are my reasons.

Most airports that get federal funding, are there just like roads are there
to make access to transportation of an enhanced means such as flying
possible. If you call that subsidized, oh well, but I disagree with that.

Runways wear out because of weather and time, and because of loading cycles
of large planes landing on them. The single engine piston airplanes do not
contribute to stressing the pavement of the runways and taxiways, at all.

Control towers and instrument landing equipment is at larger airports to
serve the larger GA types, which are mostly business transportation, and
that is a cost of a region keeping good business in the area, and a good tax
base and employer giving jobs to the people of the area.

Charging an additional landing fee for using assets that would be there with
or without the "little guy" put-putting along in his C-150 (or larger) makes
no sense to me. It only places an unfair burden on an already expensive
hobby.
--
Jim in NC

In article ,
Dallas wrote:

As much as we hate government involvement in general, I think it would be
fair to say that the U.S. subsides GA to encourage it's existence.

What subsidies?

--
Bob Noel
(goodness, please trim replies!!!)