Cessna 152 spin integrity

My recollection is that a "normal" spin entry would tumble the gyros in a
150M, but not in a 152. *Apparently, if my recollection of the gimbal limits
is correct, the 150 dipped through 80 degrees nose down on the entry and the
152 did not.

Oh. The 152 goes at least to 80. I'd say inverted through 90, pretty
much, on entry.

It's got a caged gyro but when I've done spins it wasn't caged --
definitely took a tumble.

Ricky wrote:
I was watching the 50-something spins done in a 152 on youtube and it
got me thinking;

I seem to remember being taught during commercial training that spins
do not greatly increase G forces on the airplane, is this true?

I also remember being warned "no spin is exactly the same or
predictable, so DON'T do them solo! Was this just a warning from my
school so we wouldn't screw up their gyros or are spins indeed
possibly very dangerous inherently for some reason?

I would like to try some solo next time I'm up just for fun but may
take a willing CFI along (or fellow pilot) just in case.

Would 50-something spins compromise a Cessna 150 or 152's structure?

Another thing I'd be concerned about was getting overly dizzy beyond a
handful of spins.

Ricky

Hi Rick;

I'm not trying to be confrontational here but I notice you are a
commercial pilot. I can't for the life of me rectify why you don't know
the answers to the questions you are asking here. I find it incredulous
that a commercial pilot could go through the process, then pass the
flight test and not know these answers.


--
Dudley Henriques

Dudley Henriques wrote in
:

Ricky wrote:
I was watching the 50-something spins done in a 152 on youtube and it
got me thinking;

I seem to remember being taught during commercial training that spins
do not greatly increase G forces on the airplane, is this true?

I also remember being warned "no spin is exactly the same or
predictable, so DON'T do them solo! Was this just a warning from my
school so we wouldn't screw up their gyros or are spins indeed
possibly very dangerous inherently for some reason?

I would like to try some solo next time I'm up just for fun but may
take a willing CFI along (or fellow pilot) just in case.

Would 50-something spins compromise a Cessna 150 or 152's structure?

Another thing I'd be concerned about was getting overly dizzy beyond
a
handful of spins.

Ricky

Hi Rick;

I'm not trying to be confrontational here but I notice you are a
commercial pilot. I can't for the life of me rectify why you don't
know
the answers to the questions you are asking here. I find it
incredulous
that a commercial pilot could go through the process, then pass the
flight test and not know these answers.



Modern life!

To be fair, I wouldn't have known much about structures and G limits
when I got my commercial either. There's certainly nothing presented in
the syllabus that could be described as anything more than rudimentary.
The current trend is to tell pilots less and less about how the
airplanes they fly are put together. The last type rating I did was just
appalling.


Bertie

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote in
:

Ricky wrote:
I was watching the 50-something spins done in a 152 on youtube and it
got me thinking;

I seem to remember being taught during commercial training that spins
do not greatly increase G forces on the airplane, is this true?

I also remember being warned "no spin is exactly the same or
predictable, so DON'T do them solo! Was this just a warning from my
school so we wouldn't screw up their gyros or are spins indeed
possibly very dangerous inherently for some reason?

I would like to try some solo next time I'm up just for fun but may
take a willing CFI along (or fellow pilot) just in case.

Would 50-something spins compromise a Cessna 150 or 152's structure?

Another thing I'd be concerned about was getting overly dizzy beyond
a
handful of spins.

Ricky
Hi Rick;

I'm not trying to be confrontational here but I notice you are a
commercial pilot. I can't for the life of me rectify why you don't
know
the answers to the questions you are asking here. I find it
incredulous
that a commercial pilot could go through the process, then pass the
flight test and not know these answers.



Modern life!

To be fair, I wouldn't have known much about structures and G limits
when I got my commercial either. There's certainly nothing presented in
the syllabus that could be described as anything more than rudimentary.
The current trend is to tell pilots less and less about how the
airplanes they fly are put together. The last type rating I did was just
appalling.


Bertie

Again, I don't mean to be picking on the OP who innocently asked what
I'm sure he believes to be pertinent questions. My puzzlement is more
directed at the system that trained this pilot.

A commercial pilot who has to ask if a spin greatly increases the g
forces on an airplane?
A commercial pilot who has to ask if spins are inherently dangerous?

Things CAN'T be THIS bad....or ARE they!!!!!!

--
Dudley Henriques

Things CAN'T be THIS bad....or ARE they!!!!!!

--
Dudley Henriques- Hide quoted text -

I know the answer to those questions and I'm a mere PPL. I didn't do
any formal ground school.

I learned the answer to the g question by having two spins
demonstrated to me.

The danger part, well, doesn't that ultimately have to do with
altitude, spin awareness, and ability to recover? Danger is relative
to the answers to those "questions".

So, I don't think things are THAT bad.

However I do think a PPL should get enough training from a CFI well
trained in spins to actually recover from a spin before getting the
PPL. Doesn't have to be on the PTS. But ought to be an endorsement.
Every bit as important in my view as the x country.

wrote:
Things CAN'T be THIS bad....or ARE they!!!!!!

--
Dudley Henriques- Hide quoted text -

I know the answer to those questions and I'm a mere PPL. I didn't do
any formal ground school.

I learned the answer to the g question by having two spins
demonstrated to me.

The danger part, well, doesn't that ultimately have to do with
altitude, spin awareness, and ability to recover? Danger is relative
to the answers to those "questions".

So, I don't think things are THAT bad.

However I do think a PPL should get enough training from a CFI well
trained in spins to actually recover from a spin before getting the
PPL. Doesn't have to be on the PTS. But ought to be an endorsement.
Every bit as important in my view as the x country.

You did the right thing familiarizing yourself with the spin
environment. I highly recommend that all pilots do that.
What we have been discussing here is nothing more than basic reading!!
I can't imagine a pilot carrying an active commercial plus an instrument
rating who hasn't at least READ something about spins.

--
Dudley Henriques

Dudley Henriques wrote:
Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote in
:

Ricky wrote:
I was watching the 50-something spins done in a 152 on youtube and it
got me thinking;

I seem to remember being taught during commercial training that spins
do not greatly increase G forces on the airplane, is this true?

I also remember being warned "no spin is exactly the same or
predictable, so DON'T do them solo! Was this just a warning from my
school so we wouldn't screw up their gyros or are spins indeed
possibly very dangerous inherently for some reason?

I would like to try some solo next time I'm up just for fun but may
take a willing CFI along (or fellow pilot) just in case.

Would 50-something spins compromise a Cessna 150 or 152's structure?

Another thing I'd be concerned about was getting overly dizzy beyond
a
handful of spins.

Ricky
Hi Rick;

I'm not trying to be confrontational here but I notice you are a
commercial pilot. I can't for the life of me rectify why you don't
know
the answers to the questions you are asking here. I find it
incredulous
that a commercial pilot could go through the process, then pass the
flight test and not know these answers.



Modern life!
To be fair, I wouldn't have known much about structures and G limits
when I got my commercial either. There's certainly nothing presented
in the syllabus that could be described as anything more than
rudimentary. The current trend is to tell pilots less and less about
how the airplanes they fly are put together. The last type rating I
did was just appalling.

Bertie

Again, I don't mean to be picking on the OP who innocently asked what
I'm sure he believes to be pertinent questions. My puzzlement is more
directed at the system that trained this pilot.

A commercial pilot who has to ask if a spin greatly increases the g
forces on an airplane?
A commercial pilot who has to ask if spins are inherently dangerous?

Things CAN'T be THIS bad....or ARE they!!!!!!

I can't speak for your field, Dudley, but in mine
I have to deal with electrical engineers that have
never touched a soldering iron and CS grads that
have never coded in assembly language.

Jim Stewart wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote:
Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote in
:

Ricky wrote:
I was watching the 50-something spins done in a 152 on youtube and it
got me thinking;

I seem to remember being taught during commercial training that spins
do not greatly increase G forces on the airplane, is this true?

I also remember being warned "no spin is exactly the same or
predictable, so DON'T do them solo! Was this just a warning from my
school so we wouldn't screw up their gyros or are spins indeed
possibly very dangerous inherently for some reason?

I would like to try some solo next time I'm up just for fun but may
take a willing CFI along (or fellow pilot) just in case.

Would 50-something spins compromise a Cessna 150 or 152's structure?

Another thing I'd be concerned about was getting overly dizzy beyond
a
handful of spins.

Ricky
Hi Rick;

I'm not trying to be confrontational here but I notice you are a
commercial pilot. I can't for the life of me rectify why you don't
know
the answers to the questions you are asking here. I find it
incredulous
that a commercial pilot could go through the process, then pass the
flight test and not know these answers.



Modern life!
To be fair, I wouldn't have known much about structures and G limits
when I got my commercial either. There's certainly nothing presented
in the syllabus that could be described as anything more than
rudimentary. The current trend is to tell pilots less and less about
how the airplanes they fly are put together. The last type rating I
did was just appalling.

Bertie

Again, I don't mean to be picking on the OP who innocently asked what
I'm sure he believes to be pertinent questions. My puzzlement is more
directed at the system that trained this pilot.

A commercial pilot who has to ask if a spin greatly increases the g
forces on an airplane?
A commercial pilot who has to ask if spins are inherently dangerous?

Things CAN'T be THIS bad....or ARE they!!!!!!

I can't speak for your field, Dudley, but in mine
I have to deal with electrical engineers that have
never touched a soldering iron and CS grads that
have never coded in assembly language.

I know. We have a son who was a high level head hunter for a major
company dealing with the hiring of computer science grads on the Masters
level who needed remedial training in basic algebra to go on the job.

--
Dudley Henriques

Dudley Henriques wrote in
:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote in
:

Ricky wrote:
I was watching the 50-something spins done in a 152 on youtube and
it got me thinking;

I seem to remember being taught during commercial training that
spins do not greatly increase G forces on the airplane, is this
true?

I also remember being warned "no spin is exactly the same or
predictable, so DON'T do them solo! Was this just a warning from my
school so we wouldn't screw up their gyros or are spins indeed
possibly very dangerous inherently for some reason?

I would like to try some solo next time I'm up just for fun but may
take a willing CFI along (or fellow pilot) just in case.

Would 50-something spins compromise a Cessna 150 or 152's
structure?

Another thing I'd be concerned about was getting overly dizzy
beyond
a
handful of spins.

Ricky
Hi Rick;

I'm not trying to be confrontational here but I notice you are a
commercial pilot. I can't for the life of me rectify why you don't
know
the answers to the questions you are asking here. I find it
incredulous
that a commercial pilot could go through the process, then pass the
flight test and not know these answers.



Modern life!

To be fair, I wouldn't have known much about structures and G limits
when I got my commercial either. There's certainly nothing presented
in the syllabus that could be described as anything more than
rudimentary. The current trend is to tell pilots less and less about
how the airplanes they fly are put together. The last type rating I
did was just appalling.


Bertie

Again, I don't mean to be picking on the OP who innocently asked what
I'm sure he believes to be pertinent questions. My puzzlement is more
directed at the system that trained this pilot.

Likewise.


A commercial pilot who has to ask if a spin greatly increases the g
forces on an airplane?


Well, to be fair, it varies a bit

A commercial pilot who has to ask if spins are inherently dangerous?

Things CAN'T be THIS bad....or ARE they!!!!!!


Have been in some quarters for some time.. Most of the kids coming up as
FOs at my place have either never spun or have only seen them
demonstrated. Because of the other thread on it, I was talking with my
FO abou tit over dinner, and he told me that he had only had been shown
them oncece and that they had done three turns in a 172, but he thought
that the airplane must have been spiraling for the last few turns. I
told him that 172s are hard to get to go around more than about a half a
turn. He said that he queried it at the time, but was assured by the
instructor (at a big school that specialises in training airline piots)
that they were definitely spins..


Bertie

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote in
:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote in
:

Ricky wrote:
I was watching the 50-something spins done in a 152 on youtube and
it got me thinking;

I seem to remember being taught during commercial training that
spins do not greatly increase G forces on the airplane, is this
true?

I also remember being warned "no spin is exactly the same or
predictable, so DON'T do them solo! Was this just a warning from my
school so we wouldn't screw up their gyros or are spins indeed
possibly very dangerous inherently for some reason?

I would like to try some solo next time I'm up just for fun but may
take a willing CFI along (or fellow pilot) just in case.

Would 50-something spins compromise a Cessna 150 or 152's
structure?

Another thing I'd be concerned about was getting overly dizzy
beyond
a
handful of spins.

Ricky
Hi Rick;

I'm not trying to be confrontational here but I notice you are a
commercial pilot. I can't for the life of me rectify why you don't
know
the answers to the questions you are asking here. I find it
incredulous
that a commercial pilot could go through the process, then pass the
flight test and not know these answers.


Modern life!

To be fair, I wouldn't have known much about structures and G limits
when I got my commercial either. There's certainly nothing presented
in the syllabus that could be described as anything more than
rudimentary. The current trend is to tell pilots less and less about
how the airplanes they fly are put together. The last type rating I
did was just appalling.


Bertie
Again, I don't mean to be picking on the OP who innocently asked what
I'm sure he believes to be pertinent questions. My puzzlement is more
directed at the system that trained this pilot.

Likewise.

A commercial pilot who has to ask if a spin greatly increases the g
forces on an airplane?


Well, to be fair, it varies a bit

A commercial pilot who has to ask if spins are inherently dangerous?

Things CAN'T be THIS bad....or ARE they!!!!!!


Have been in some quarters for some time.. Most of the kids coming up as
FOs at my place have either never spun or have only seen them
demonstrated. Because of the other thread on it, I was talking with my
FO abou tit over dinner, and he told me that he had only had been shown
them oncece and that they had done three turns in a 172, but he thought
that the airplane must have been spiraling for the last few turns. I
told him that 172s are hard to get to go around more than about a half a
turn. He said that he queried it at the time, but was assured by the
instructor (at a big school that specialises in training airline piots)
that they were definitely spins..


Bertie

I think my main concern isn't that formal instruction on spins is
missing, but rather that whoever trained this pilot apparently never
even engaged his student in a basic conversation more or less an
instructional period concerning the most general nature of the spin
environment.
It's inconceivable to me that I would send ANY applicant up for a
commercial flight test that I hadn't at least satisfied myself on the
fact that the pilot I was recommending had at least some basic
understanding about spins even though I knew the applicant wouldn't be
required to do spins.
I must be getting old or something. :-)))

--
Dudley Henriques