Discovery Flight today...unexpected results

On Sun, 10 Feb 2008 10:43:23 -0800 (PST), WingFlaps
wrote:

On Feb 10, 10:09*pm, DGS wrote:


Any feedback or experiences anyone can share? *At this point I'm
really torn about trying again, while on the other hand still not
necessarily ready to back down from the challenge. *Does this get
better? *Or worse?

My experience matches yours exactly. I was horribly nervous and my
first solo was not enjoyable I was so nervous. Trust me the training
will gradually take over and the nerves subside as you get comfortable
with flying the 'plane. Avoid an instructor who always grabs the
controls or has his feet on the rudder all the time -it will slow you
down. I'd say, don't get an instructor younger than you are. While
most can fly well they just don't understand how your behavior and
learning processes change as you get older. You need a positive
learning environment -nothing is a problem if you have a desire to
learn and the right learning environment. The only time I'm nervous
now is in bad xwinds with shear.

Cheers

Thanks for sharing your experience...it has already helped me more
than you can know.

You bring up something interesting...the age of my instructor. It
actually WAS somewhat disappointing to have an instructor who was
younger than me. I don't know...for some reason I didn't feel like I
was on the same page. I see YouTube videos of older flight
instructors who are so reassuring, enthusiastic, and helpful. I
wanted that. Don't get me wrong, my instructor was not a mean guy or
a bad guy. But he was quiet and didn't communicate with me much.

Another thing that left a bad taste in my mouth. After the flight was
over and we'd taxied back to the hanger he was climbing out of the
plane and realized he didn't have his seatbelt fastened. He laughed
about the fact that he had forgotten to do so. As I then followed him
out of the plane I realized that I hadn't had mine fastened either. He
then apologized for forgetting to have either of us do so, but I could
tell that it didn't really bother him. I dunno, I guess it's not a
big deal, but I really kind of want someone who maybe takes it all a
little more seriously.

DGS wrote:
Another thing that left a bad taste in my mouth. After the flight was
plane and realized he didn't have his seatbelt fastened. He laughed
about the fact that he had forgotten to do so. As I then followed him
out of the plane I realized that I hadn't had mine fastened either. He
then apologized for forgetting to have either of us do so, but I could
tell that it didn't really bother him. I dunno, I guess it's not a
big deal, but I really kind of want someone who maybe takes it all a
little more seriously.

Actually, this IS a big deal.

First off, it's a violation of regulations. You both needed to have your
belts secured. And, on a turbulent day - as you described - it's a safety
issue; the belt helps keep you in the seat, and helps keep you in control
of the aircraft.

Second, it implies that he didn't use a checklist. My checklist shows
this in two places -- before engine start, and before takeoff. I suppose
it's possible that he used a checklist that didn't have this somewhere, it
doesn't seem likely to me.

Besides the flight safety issues, this will also affect your training.
You want to be trained by somebody you want to emulate, since you will end
up emulating your instructor. You're better off being trained by somebody
who takes this more seriously, to ensure you're trained to take it
seriously as well.

.... Alan
--
Alan Gerber
PP-ASEL
gerber AT panix DOT com

On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 03:30:18 +0000 (UTC), Alan Gerber
wrote:

Second, it implies that he didn't use a checklist. My checklist shows
this in two places -- before engine start, and before takeoff. I suppose
it's possible that he used a checklist that didn't have this somewhere, it
doesn't seem likely to me.

He didn't use a checklist...that I know for sure. Was going to
ask...didn't...should have.

"DGS" wrote in message ...
After the flight was over and we'd taxied back to the hanger
he was climbing out of the plane and realized he didn't have
his seatbelt fastened. He laughed about the fact that he had
forgotten to do so. As I then followed him out of the plane
I realized that I hadn't had mine fastened either.

Do you really mean that the shoulder belts weren't used?

I can not imagine doing stall demos without lap belts. It is something ANY
pilot would notice. It is even a requirement on your Flight Test to brief
the examiner (as though they were your passenger) and make sure their belt
is secured.

On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 03:43:39 GMT, "Mike Isaksen"
wrote:

Do you really mean that the shoulder belts weren't used?

I can not imagine doing stall demos without lap belts. It is something ANY
pilot would notice. It is even a requirement on your Flight Test to brief
the examiner (as though they were your passenger) and make sure their belt
is secured.

Beltless. He did a climb stall at about 2800ft. Basically drew the
throttle down to idle until it got down to about 40 and the thing
started shaking. He then recovered. But no belts were used...they
were forgotten by us both. He did apologize for forgetting, but it
did strike me as odd that he didn't use a checklist.

Honestly, I only know one other pilot (and he uses checklists and
writes things down religiously)...for all I knew this was just
something pilots did. At this stage I'm as green as can be. I do
know enough about flying to where I should have known better though. I
will be going to a different instructor next time and will insist on
discussing my experience before commencing the next round of lessons.

DGS wrote:
Another thing that left a bad taste in my mouth. After the flight was
over and we'd taxied back to the hanger he was climbing out of the
plane and realized he didn't have his seatbelt fastened. He laughed
about the fact that he had forgotten to do so. As I then followed him
out of the plane I realized that I hadn't had mine fastened either. He
then apologized for forgetting to have either of us do so, but I could
tell that it didn't really bother him. I dunno, I guess it's not a
big deal, but I really kind of want someone who maybe takes it all a
little more seriously.

He was in violation of FAR 91.107 "Use of safety belts, shoulder harnesses,
and child restraint systems":

http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text....2.4.4&idno=14

Were I in your position I'd look to using another instructor.

Jim Logajan wrote:
DGS wrote:
Another thing that left a bad taste in my mouth. After the flight was
over and we'd taxied back to the hanger he was climbing out of the
plane and realized he didn't have his seatbelt fastened. He laughed
about the fact that he had forgotten to do so. As I then followed him
out of the plane I realized that I hadn't had mine fastened either. He
then apologized for forgetting to have either of us do so, but I could
tell that it didn't really bother him. I dunno, I guess it's not a
big deal, but I really kind of want someone who maybe takes it all a
little more seriously.

He was in violation of FAR 91.107 "Use of safety belts, shoulder harnesses,
and child restraint systems":


How in the hell can anybody be so unaware of themselves that they don't realize
their seatbelt isn't buckled? The first bump they hit will float them right out
of the seat. Personally, I prefer to become one with the aircraft. My personal
bugaboo is skipping the shoulder strap when planning normal flight. That's
bitten me on the ass before, too... and yet I still resist because I find it
confining. But the seatbelt? It's the first and last thing I do when
establishing myself in the aircraft.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

DGS wrote:

Another thing that left a bad taste in my mouth. After the flight was
over and we'd taxied back to the hanger he was climbing out of the
plane and realized he didn't have his seatbelt fastened. He laughed
about the fact that he had forgotten to do so. As I then followed him
out of the plane I realized that I hadn't had mine fastened either. He
then apologized for forgetting to have either of us do so, but I could
tell that it didn't really bother him. I dunno, I guess it's not a
big deal, but I really kind of want someone who maybe takes it all a
little more seriously.

Now that you have come out with a more details about this
guy I think its clear that he is not the kind of guy you
should be looking for.

I am sorry you had to be exposed to someone like that for
your first introductory flight and it reflects poorly on
the rest of us who do follow the rules and put a priority
on giving their students the best training they can.

Talk to some other instructors you'll soon run accross some
good ones. Good luck.

"DGS" wrote in message
...

Another thing that left a bad taste in my mouth. After the flight was
over and we'd taxied back to the hanger he was climbing out of the
plane and realized he didn't have his seatbelt fastened. He laughed
about the fact that he had forgotten to do so.


He'd have failed his private and commercial checkrides, not to mention the
CFI pratical. Your pilot didn't have his head in the cockpit. Seatbelts
are right there on the checklist.

I dunno, I guess it's not a big deal, but I really kind of want someone
who maybe takes it all a
little more seriously.

Even if he -hadn't- gotten you up doing stalls, it's a big deal. Had that
turned into a spin you guys would have been all over the cockpit. Your
problem here isn't you, it was the so-called "instructor" who busted an
important safety regulation and demonstrated poor attention to detail in his
very first flight with you.

-c

On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 07:53:25 -0800, "gatt"
wrote:


"DGS" wrote in message
.. .

Another thing that left a bad taste in my mouth. After the flight was
over and we'd taxied back to the hanger he was climbing out of the
plane and realized he didn't have his seatbelt fastened. He laughed
about the fact that he had forgotten to do so.


He'd have failed his private and commercial checkrides, not to mention the
CFI pratical. Your pilot didn't have his head in the cockpit. Seatbelts
are right there on the checklist.

I dunno, I guess it's not a big deal, but I really kind of want someone
who maybe takes it all a
little more seriously.

Even if he -hadn't- gotten you up doing stalls, it's a big deal. Had that
turned into a spin you guys would have been all over the cockpit. Your
problem here isn't you, it was the so-called "instructor" who busted an
important safety regulation and demonstrated poor attention to detail in his
very first flight with you.

-c


Agreed. What I *should* have done was ask the instructor why he
wasn't using a checklist, however being totally new to real world
piloting I was intimidated and didn't do so. Had he used a checklist,
he would have remembered our belts (and again I will state
emphatically that I know for a fact that no checklist and NO seatbelts
were used). After we were done I should have notified the manager of
the FBO.

At this point I'm obviously looking for a new instructor. I'm torn on
whether I want to go through the bother of reporting this to the FBO.
There are only 2 in my city and I hate to burn a bridge.