Wow

Jim Stewart wrote in
:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
wrote in :

We had a couple of very windy days over here in Europe.
Look at a crosswind landing of an A320 at HAM, a near crash:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ddb_1204404185

Nice pic:

http://www.airliners.net/uf/view.fil...name=phpOltUWB
.jpg



Next time someone tries to tell you that airliners just "kick it
straight" when they land, like this guy did, show em this...

Watched the video and it looked like he tried to
kick it straight with the ailerons instead of the
rudder. Am I missing something?


Well, it looks to me he just tried to kick it straight with the rudder. The
roll/yaw couple would have rolled him left and he was drifting when he
touched down, which would have added to the roll left. he appears to have
some right aileron in during that first left yaw, in fact, though it's a
little hard to see
Point is, kicking it straight doesn't really work. It's a neccesary evil in
some jets ( the A 320 isn't one of them) but remains an inferior method of
controlling an airplane in a crosswind.

Bertie

"Jim Stewart" wrote in message
.. .
Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
wrote in :

We had a couple of very windy days over here in Europe.
Look at a crosswind landing of an A320 at HAM, a near crash:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ddb_1204404185

Nice pic:

http://www.airliners.net/uf/view.fil...=phpOltUWB.jpg



Next time someone tries to tell you that airliners just "kick it
straight" when they land, like this guy did, show em this...

Watched the video and it looked like he tried to
kick it straight with the ailerons instead of the
rudder. Am I missing something?

You can't generate much yaw with aileron. The pilot did generate a fair
amount of left yaw (either using rudder or the left brake), which (combined
with the crosswind) gave him a nasty left roll. It looked like he applied a
lot of right aileron before he drug the wingtip, but it wasn't enough. A
boot full of right rudder at that point might have kept him from dragging
the wingtip, but that would have worsened his already bad runway alignment
problem.

KB

"Kyle Boatright" wrote in message
...


It's a swept wing. When you kick it left with rudder the right wing moves
forward to a straight wing configuration and lift increases, wing goes up.
Thus the left roll.

Same thing for the left wing. Except it looses lift.

"Curator" N185KG

"karl mcgruber" skywagon wrote in
:



"Kyle Boatright" wrote in message
...


It's a swept wing. When you kick it left with rudder the right wing
moves forward to a straight wing configuration and lift increases,
wing goes up. Thus the left roll.

But there is plenty of roll control available to stop that and command a
roll in the opposite direction.


Bertie

"karl mcgruber" skywagon wrote in message
...


"Kyle Boatright" wrote in message
...


It's a swept wing. When you kick it left with rudder the right wing moves
forward to a straight wing configuration and lift increases, wing goes up.
Thus the left roll.

Same thing for the left wing. Except it looses lift.

"Curator" N185KG

Yep, dutch roll. Swept wings amplify the rudder's ability to generate a
roll rate...

"Kyle Boatright" wrote in
:


"Jim Stewart" wrote in message
.. .
Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
wrote in :

We had a couple of very windy days over here in Europe.
Look at a crosswind landing of an A320 at HAM, a near crash:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ddb_1204404185

Nice pic:

http://www.airliners.net/uf/view.fil...ename=phpOltUW
B.jpg



Next time someone tries to tell you that airliners just "kick it
straight" when they land, like this guy did, show em this...

Watched the video and it looked like he tried to
kick it straight with the ailerons instead of the
rudder. Am I missing something?

You can't generate much yaw with aileron. The pilot did generate a
fair amount of left yaw (either using rudder or the left brake), which
(combined with the crosswind) gave him a nasty left roll. It looked
like he applied a lot of right aileron before he drug the wingtip, but
it wasn't enough. A boot full of right rudder at that point might
have kept him from dragging the wingtip, but that would have worsened
his already bad runway alignment problem.

That's it. here's a well known video full of x-wind landings. Some good ,
some bad.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f78_1184881277

Note the 747 at about 1:45 THat airplane has to land pretty much wings
level and the technique is well done here. There is some yaw introduced at
about 100 feet, probably as an adjustment for tracking rather than to
align. The lion's share is not eliminated until after touchdown and the
observer will notice a large amount of left aileron is simultaneously
introduced.
It can be seen that the touchdown is achieved with some drift going on,
which is just something that has to be lived with if you can't touch down
slipping. It works, but it's messy and to be avoided if possible.

On Mar 2, 7:13*pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
"Kyle Boatright" wrote :







"Jim Stewart" wrote in message
. ..
Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
wrote :

We had a couple of very windy days over here in Europe.
Look at a crosswind landing of an A320 at HAM, a near crash:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ddb_1204404185

Nice pic:

http://www.airliners.net/uf/view.fil...ename=phpOltUW
B.jpg

Next time someone tries to tell you that airliners just "kick it
straight" when they land, like this guy did, show em this...

Watched the video and it looked like he tried to
kick it straight with the ailerons instead of the
rudder. *Am I missing something?

You can't generate much yaw with aileron. *The pilot did generate a
fair amount of left yaw (either using rudder or the left brake), which
(combined with the crosswind) gave him a nasty left roll. *It looked
like he applied a lot of right aileron before he drug the wingtip, but
it wasn't enough. *A boot full of right rudder at that point might
have kept him from dragging the wingtip, but that would have worsened
his already bad runway alignment problem.

That's it. here's a well known video full of x-wind landings. Some good ,
some bad.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f78_1184881277

Note the 747 at about 1:45 THat airplane has to land pretty much wings
level and the technique is well done here. There is some yaw introduced at
about 100 feet, probably as an adjustment for tracking rather than to
align. The lion's share is not eliminated until after touchdown and the
observer will notice a large amount of left aileron is simultaneously
introduced.
It can be seen that the touchdown is achieved with some drift going on,
which is just something that has to be lived with if you can't touch down
slipping. It works, but it's messy and to be avoided if possible.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Do the 747s have crabbing gears?

Wil

On Mar 2, 5:25*pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
wrote :



We had a couple of very windy days over here in Europe.
Look at a crosswind landing of an A320 at HAM, a near crash:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ddb_1204404185

Nice pic:

http://www.airliners.net/uf/view.fil...name=phpOltUWB....

Next time someone tries to tell you that airliners just "kick it straight"
when they land, like this guy did, show em this...

Bertie

Remnds me of this video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9M3m1U-QYA
I can watch tis all day.

Wil

William Hung wrote in
:

On Mar 2, 5:25*pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
wrote :



We had a couple of very windy days over here in Europe.
Look at a crosswind landing of an A320 at HAM, a near crash:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ddb_1204404185

Nice pic:

http://www.airliners.net/uf/view.file?id=536882887
&filename=phpOltUWB
...

Next time someone tries to tell you that airliners just "kick it
straight"

when they land, like this guy did, show em this...

Bertie

Remnds me of this video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9M3m1U-QYA
I can watch tis all day.


Yeah, they are kicking i straight, though they are laying off a bit of
the drift by getting the wing down as the flare. The first one has th
edownwind wing donw slightly. Remember that this exercise is intended to
demonstrate what the airplane is capable of and not to develop
technique. I have a frined who flies the 777 and he tells me it flies
just like an airplane. His first line flight to LHR had mih landing in a
strong crosswind. The trainer next to him asked if he would prefer that
he do th elanding, but my friend pressed on and found it easy.
Note that in each touchdown, the alignment takes place after touchdown,
and that th etouchdonw is positive. the yaw towards alignment is done
smoothly and though you can't see it, they are almost certainly
introducing full aileron ( smoothly) to keep the wing down and to
introduce some very welcome adverse yaw.We used to have to land the 727
like this and though it felt absolutley awful, it worked OK.

Bertie

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

Much snippage...

technique. I have a frined who flies the 777 and he tells me it flies
just like an airplane.

Ok, I'll bite. What airplanes don't fly like airplanes?