I give up, after many, many years!

Marc CYBW wrote:
Best laugh I've had on this forum in years!

Thanks,
Marc


p.s. still a shame on what this NG has turned into. :-( I'm with Jay and
about to throw in the towel.

"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
...
Shirl wrote:
Shirl:
That's a little extreme, IMO ... I don't think a person should have to
use their real name to be taken seriously. Some people aren't
comfortable using their real names, and in many instances, with just
cause. I think it's more important how people conduct themselves than
whether or not they use their real names ... but ... to each, his own.
Andrew Sarangan wrote:
You do have a point because legitimate posts also come from anonymous
posters. But if you browse the topics, nearly all inflammatory posts
come from people whose names are fake, and people with real names have
rarely made such posts, although there are exceptions.
I agree with that.

Anonymity is
critical in some newsgroups, such as abuse, drugs etc.. In aviation
there might be an occasional need for anonymity, to discuss accidents
or similar things. But for just plain shooting the breeze, as we often
do in this group, I don't see anonymity as a basic requirement.
I don't see either as a "requirement", I just don't judge anyone's
credibility *or lack of credibility* solely on whether or not they use
their real name to post ,,, whether it's to shoot the breeze or to
discuss something substantial. But again, that's JMO.
I've been posting on the pilot forums using my own name for about 10
years. Two things immediately come to mind;

The first was when someone made a HUGE deal about the fact that it didn't
matter a hoot whether or not I used my own name or not since neither I or
anyone else could prove I was in fact Dudley Henriques.

The second incident involved someone who claimed I couldn't be Dudley
Henriques because he knew Dudley Henriques and I wasn't him.
On this incident, my wife answered him asking him to PLEASE send the real
Dudley Henriques home at once because the one she had been living with for
42 years hated to do yard work.

--
Dudley Henriques



I'd hate to see that happen to anyone.

--
Dudley Henriques

Dudley Henriques wrote:
I've been posting on the pilot forums using my own name for about 10
years. Two things immediately come to mind;

The first was when someone made a HUGE deal about the fact that it
didn't matter a hoot whether or not I used my own name or not since
neither I or anyone else could prove I was in fact Dudley Henriques.

The second incident involved someone who claimed I couldn't be Dudley
Henriques because he knew Dudley Henriques and I wasn't him.
On this incident, my wife answered him asking him to PLEASE send the
real Dudley Henriques home at once because the one she had been living
with for 42 years hated to do yard work.

LOL.
I also have a friend who posted using his own name ... just so happens
he is in the television industry and of course, nobody believed it was
really him, they told him he was full of _ _ _ _, etc. It was both
humorous and frustrating for him. Really, it doesn't matter WHAT name
you use ... there can be problems either way.

Shirl wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote:
I've been posting on the pilot forums using my own name for about 10
years. Two things immediately come to mind;

The first was when someone made a HUGE deal about the fact that it
didn't matter a hoot whether or not I used my own name or not since
neither I or anyone else could prove I was in fact Dudley Henriques.

The second incident involved someone who claimed I couldn't be Dudley
Henriques because he knew Dudley Henriques and I wasn't him.
On this incident, my wife answered him asking him to PLEASE send the
real Dudley Henriques home at once because the one she had been living
with for 42 years hated to do yard work.

LOL.
I also have a friend who posted using his own name ... just so happens
he is in the television industry and of course, nobody believed it was
really him, they told him he was full of _ _ _ _, etc. It was both
humorous and frustrating for him. Really, it doesn't matter WHAT name
you use ... there can be problems either way.

So true; an unfortunate fact of Usenet.

--
Dudley Henriques

On May 11, 7:29*pm, Shirl wrote:
Andrew Sarangan wrote:
You do have a point because legitimate posts also come from anonymous
posters. But if you browse the topics, nearly all inflammatory posts
come from people whose names are fake, and people with real names have
rarely made *such posts, although there are exceptions.

I agree with that.

I agree too.

Anonymity is
critical in some newsgroups, such as abuse, drugs etc.. In aviation
there might be an occasional need for anonymity, to discuss accidents
or similar things. But for just plain shooting the breeze, as we often
do in this group, I don't see anonymity as a basic requirement.

I don't see either as a "requirement", I just don't judge anyone's
credibility *or lack of credibility* solely on whether or not they use
their real name to post ,,, whether it's to shoot the breeze or to
discuss something substantial. But again, that's JMO.

I have a real email but not my real name just because I dont want
anyone to know who I work for. I love flying light planes (Which is
why I participate on this list) but If one of my posts rubs someone
the wrong way I dont want it to reflect on my company.
The thing I dont get about this list is how everything turns
argumentitive after about a dozen posts on a thread. I dont get
individual emails (Big waste of time IMHO) and I know which threads to
read by how many posts there are. You dont see this in other groups (I
am on a car racing group for example where everyone is anonimous and
perfectly civil). After 31 years in the hobby/Biz, I think some of
this just has to do with aviation. I think it is the type of
personaliy that is attracted to flying.
My appoligies if I have posted anything to **** anybody off.
F Baum

On Mon, 12 May 2008 05:53:30 -0700 (PDT), "F. Baum"
wrote in
:

I think some of this just has to do with aviation. I think it is the
type of personaliy that is attracted to flying.

The argumentative personal attacks of which you speak are known as
'flames': http://www.eps.mcgill.ca/jargon/jargon.html#flame
They've been a phenomenon since the '60s. I doubt that flames are
unique to airmen.

Is the "car racing group" you mentioned a Usenet newsgroup?

On May 12, 8:19*am, Larry Dighera wrote:

The argumentative personal attacks of which you speak are known as
'flames':http://www.eps.mcgill.ca/jargon/jargon.html#flame
They've been a phenomenon since the '60s. *I doubt that flames are
unique to airmen.
Are you an English Teacher . I take breaks for months at a time from
this list, and its not just because of the flames. *

Is the "car racing group" you mentioned a Usenet newsgroup?

Yup, its just like this one (Without the flames of course).

Larry Dighera wrote in
:

On Mon, 12 May 2008 05:53:30 -0700 (PDT), "F. Baum"
wrote in
:

I think some of this just has to do with aviation. I think it is the
type of personaliy that is attracted to flying.

The argumentative personal attacks of which you speak are known as
'flames': http://www.eps.mcgill.ca/jargon/jargon.html#flame
They've been a phenomenon since the '60s. I doubt that flames are
unique to airmen.

Is the "car racing group" you mentioned a Usenet newsgroup?



Why, trying to figure out if it comes under your jurisdction?


Bertie

On May 12, 7:53*am, "F. Baum" wrote:
On May 11, 7:29*pm, Shirl wrote:
I have a real email but not my real name just because I dont want
anyone to know who I work for. I love flying light planes (Which is
why I participate on this list) but If one of my posts rubs someone
the wrong way I dont want it to reflect on my company.
The thing I dont get about this list is how everything turns
argumentitive after about a dozen posts on a thread. I dont get
individual emails (Big waste of time IMHO) and I know which threads to
read by how many posts there are. You dont see this in other groups (I
am on a car racing group for example where everyone is anonimous and
perfectly civil). After 31 years in the hobby/Biz, I think some of
this just has to do with aviation. I think it is the type of
personaliy that is attracted to flying.
My appoligies if I have posted anything to **** anybody off.

Hmm...this was precisely what I was thinking, but decided not to say
anything until I read your post.

I am a member of a few groups where a large percentage of the names
are real, but that cannot not be discerned from someone who is not
thoroughly fluent in, say, Serbo-Croatian. So it does not matter if
those individuals user their real name or something else, like, "the
hot bunny", which is my alias, though admittedly, it is easier for
some native English speakers to see what my name means than say
"Ferenczi". [Oddly, my real name is more anonymous than my alias.]

In any case, I think the most important point you have made is written
in your last paragraph. There is something about the character of
some pilots in this group that makes them noticeably different from
any other newsgroup that I have encountered. It is hard not to use
perjorative terms without saying what this difference is, but if I had
to choose two, I would say that _some_ pilots here are not "entirely
receptive to new ideas", and a few feel that "their status as a
licensed aviators gives them the right to be rude" toward those who
are not licensed.

In fairness, I saw a very small bit of this at my pilot school.

A few of us, the students, were sitting around in the lobby, talking
about experimental aircraft (Moller and possibility of flying cars),
and the licensed pilots were attacking us, not in a healthy way, but
in, "You have no idea what you are talking about." way. We were
discussing strength of materials, flight dynamics, and control theory,
and there were two people present who just happened to have experience
in strength of materials and control theory, at university level, but
the pilots did not know.

The owner of the flight school was present, watching from across the
room quietly until, two of the pilots started refuting vigorously
something that was clearly true. The owner interrupted in favor of
the students.

But it was not the details of the subject that mattered. It was the
sensitivity exhibited by the pilots. It was apparent that they simply
did not like the idea of someone who was not a pilot discussing the
dynamics of flight or control theory or anything that questioned dogma
in their presence. They found it offenssive. This is the only group in
USENET where I have encountered this type of sensitivity.

There are other groups, where the gap between what resident sages know
and what newbies know is much larger, say in sci.crypt and comp.dsp,
and the hostility is no where near what I have seen in this group.

Of course, this does not apply to all people in this group. I have
seen the opposite, where some pilots who say very little will pop in
from time to time to defend those who have not yet earned the right to
speak.

-Le Chaud Lapin-

Le Chaud Lapin wrote:
On May 12, 7:53 am, "F. Baum" wrote:
On May 11, 7:29 pm, Shirl wrote:
I have a real email but not my real name just because I dont want
anyone to know who I work for. I love flying light planes (Which is
why I participate on this list) but If one of my posts rubs someone
the wrong way I dont want it to reflect on my company.
The thing I dont get about this list is how everything turns
argumentitive after about a dozen posts on a thread. I dont get
individual emails (Big waste of time IMHO) and I know which threads to
read by how many posts there are. You dont see this in other groups (I
am on a car racing group for example where everyone is anonimous and
perfectly civil). After 31 years in the hobby/Biz, I think some of
this just has to do with aviation. I think it is the type of
personaliy that is attracted to flying.
My appoligies if I have posted anything to **** anybody off.

Hmm...this was precisely what I was thinking, but decided not to say
anything until I read your post.

I am a member of a few groups where a large percentage of the names
are real, but that cannot not be discerned from someone who is not
thoroughly fluent in, say, Serbo-Croatian. So it does not matter if
those individuals user their real name or something else, like, "the
hot bunny", which is my alias, though admittedly, it is easier for
some native English speakers to see what my name means than say
"Ferenczi". [Oddly, my real name is more anonymous than my alias.]

In any case, I think the most important point you have made is written
in your last paragraph. There is something about the character of
some pilots in this group that makes them noticeably different from
any other newsgroup that I have encountered. It is hard not to use
perjorative terms without saying what this difference is, but if I had
to choose two, I would say that _some_ pilots here are not "entirely
receptive to new ideas", and a few feel that "their status as a
licensed aviators gives them the right to be rude" toward those who
are not licensed.

In fairness, I saw a very small bit of this at my pilot school.

A few of us, the students, were sitting around in the lobby, talking
about experimental aircraft (Moller and possibility of flying cars),
and the licensed pilots were attacking us, not in a healthy way, but
in, "You have no idea what you are talking about." way. We were
discussing strength of materials, flight dynamics, and control theory,
and there were two people present who just happened to have experience
in strength of materials and control theory, at university level, but
the pilots did not know.

The owner of the flight school was present, watching from across the
room quietly until, two of the pilots started refuting vigorously
something that was clearly true. The owner interrupted in favor of
the students.

But it was not the details of the subject that mattered. It was the
sensitivity exhibited by the pilots. It was apparent that they simply
did not like the idea of someone who was not a pilot discussing the
dynamics of flight or control theory or anything that questioned dogma
in their presence. They found it offenssive. This is the only group in
USENET where I have encountered this type of sensitivity.

There are other groups, where the gap between what resident sages know
and what newbies know is much larger, say in sci.crypt and comp.dsp,
and the hostility is no where near what I have seen in this group.

Of course, this does not apply to all people in this group. I have
seen the opposite, where some pilots who say very little will pop in
from time to time to defend those who have not yet earned the right to
speak.

-Le Chaud Lapin-

You seem to be generalizing where specifics are indicated. There are
good and bad in all groups of people. Usenet by it's very definition
will have every personality type you can imagine present at any given
moment.
An argument can be made pro or con, but any attempt at categorizing a
group to a single personality trait can easily reflect on one's OWN
personal view rather than reflect the collective view of a group.
Pilots come in all shapes and forms just as any other group. On any
given day you will find helpful people and complete idiots present in
that same group.
The bottom line as far as I can determine is that one pilot will be a
saint, the next will be an asshole. Where it gets complicated is the
fact that on the same day, the saint can become the asshole and the
asshole the saint.
:-)

--
Dudley Henriques

Le Chaud Lapin writes:

There is something about the character of
some pilots in this group that makes them noticeably different from
any other newsgroup that I have encountered. It is hard not to use
perjorative terms without saying what this difference is, but if I had
to choose two, I would say that _some_ pilots here are not "entirely
receptive to new ideas", and a few feel that "their status as a
licensed aviators gives them the right to be rude" toward those who
are not licensed.

I should hope that most pilots were not this bad, and it seems that they are
not. I'm not sure why so many pilots in this newsgroup fit the description;
perhaps it is a combination of personality characteristics that produces it.

A few of us, the students, were sitting around in the lobby, talking
about experimental aircraft (Moller and possibility of flying cars),
and the licensed pilots were attacking us, not in a healthy way, but
in, "You have no idea what you are talking about." way. We were
discussing strength of materials, flight dynamics, and control theory,
and there were two people present who just happened to have experience
in strength of materials and control theory, at university level, but
the pilots did not know.

The owner of the flight school was present, watching from across the
room quietly until, two of the pilots started refuting vigorously
something that was clearly true. The owner interrupted in favor of
the students.

But it was not the details of the subject that mattered. It was the
sensitivity exhibited by the pilots. It was apparent that they simply
did not like the idea of someone who was not a pilot discussing the
dynamics of flight or control theory or anything that questioned dogma
in their presence. They found it offenssive. This is the only group in
USENET where I have encountered this type of sensitivity.

I think it is linked to insecurity. Some pilots probably use their licenses
as a basis for building up a large but fragile ego; subsequently, whenever
anything threatens that house of cards, they lash out defensively. It makes
them look overemotional and stupid, but they do not realize this. Smart
pilots are unlikely to be insecure and do not need a pilot's license for
self-validation, so I wouldn't expect them to behave in this way.

There are other groups, where the gap between what resident sages know
and what newbies know is much larger, say in sci.crypt and comp.dsp,
and the hostility is no where near what I have seen in this group.

Perhaps the status is less illusory among the knowledgeable people in those
groups.