Cost to earn a glider certificate?

Think of it this way; except for the investment in your own glider, the
costs are about the same as playing golf.

The instruction part will be as much fun as the later solo-flying, well,
almost. And, as an investment, a glider depreciates less that most
anything you can buy. Most people regain their original purchase price
owing to inflation. Try that with a car or boat.

At 22:04 07 June 2008, Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Sat, 07 Jun 2008 13:36:27 -0500, Jim Logajan wrote:

Yes, I understand the training cost is just part of a continuum of
ongoing
costs. But I'm assuming (perhaps incorrectly) that I'll be doing more

flying in a short span of time than I would once I earn a certificate.
So
it's a spike in discretionary spending that needs to be planned for.

You may be surprised. I fly in the UK and learnt here, mainly on a
winch,
but I think the pre-solo hours are similar to the typical US
aero-tow learning experience. The main difference is that winching
provides more, shorter flights with a considerably lower launch cost. A
side effect is that learning on the winch means you are likely to have
more landing practise because you will have done at least twice as many
launches and landings as an aero tow student by the time you solo.

But I digress: in my pre-solo year (6 months to solo flying weekends,
then
a month in the club SZD Juniors before thermals stopped for the year)
I accumulated about 25 hours flying. For the next four years I averaged
around 70 hours per year and assumed that would be my norm. However the
last two years have really dropped that figure thanks to changed weather
patterns, last year I didn't quite touch 40 hours and this year looks
set to be worse. But then, we ARE a weather-dependent game.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. |
org | Zappa fan & glider pilot

In article "Vaughn Simon" writes:

"Tony Verhulst" wrote in message
...
... your real question (IMHO) should be "what does it cost to participate in
soaring?".

Well said! Since much of soaring is done solo anyhow, and much of your
student flying is also solo, the cost to actually earn your certificate is not
terribly relevant. Flying is flying...certificate or not, and flying is a
wonderful thing.

Vaughn (CFIG)

Much the same was true when I got my power license -- flying is flying.

However, now I wonder about what sort of flights to expect while getting
the rating -- how many useful flights and how many wasted ones? Does it really
take 15 to 20 flights of dual before solo? What is covered in those, and how
can one take control of the process to make it more efficient?

How many more dual before "high solo", and how many more before the check ride?

How many of these flights actually get into lift and give a good learning period,
and how many are just a ride back down from release?

yes, I know, "ask the local group's instructors". I am asking here first so I
am better equipped to evaluate their answers when I do so.


Alan

There are no wasted flights; you can learn something from every one. No
two days are alike and the weather has to be figured out each day.

That said, there are 17 things that have to be entered by an instructor
into your log book before it is legal to solo. The efficiency is to carry
that list, post a flight number by the item covered, and wave the list in
front of your instructor to be sure all items are planned for ahead of
time.

I had a student fly a two hour flight as his second flight after solo here
in the midwest. The next time he flew it was 16 minutes; he didn't sort
out the weather. You will have ups and downs in your whole career as a
glider pilot and that is what makes it interesting.

At 21:39 08 June 2008, Alan wrote:
In article "Vaughn Simon" writes:

"Tony Verhulst" wrote in message
m...
... your real question (IMHO) should be "what does it cost to
participate in
soaring?".

Well said! Since much of soaring is done solo anyhow, and much of
your
student flying is also solo, the cost to actually earn your certificate
is not
terribly relevant. Flying is flying...certificate or not, and flying
is
a
wonderful thing.

Vaughn (CFIG)

Much the same was true when I got my power license -- flying is
flying.

However, now I wonder about what sort of flights to expect while
getting
the rating -- how many useful flights and how many wasted ones? Does it
really
take 15 to 20 flights of dual before solo? What is covered in those,
and
how
can one take control of the process to make it more efficient?

How many more dual before "high solo", and how many more before the
check ride?

How many of these flights actually get into lift and give a good
learning period,
and how many are just a ride back down from release?

yes, I know, "ask the local group's instructors". I am asking here
first so I
am better equipped to evaluate their answers when I do so.


Alan

"Nyal Williams" wrote in message
...
snip

That said, there are 17 things that have to be entered by an instructor
into your log book before it is legal to solo. The efficiency is to carry
that list, post a flight number by the item covered, and wave the list in
front of your instructor to be sure all items are planned for ahead of
time.

snip

Nyal.. would you care to list all 17 items?

BT

Alan wrote:
Much the same was true when I got my power license -- flying is flying.

However, now I wonder about what sort of flights to expect while getting
the rating -- how many useful flights and how many wasted ones? Does it really
take 15 to 20 flights of dual before solo?

It took me 25, which was considered to be rather unusually low. However I
was not a transition pilot, but ab initio.

What is covered in those, and how
can one take control of the process to make it more efficient?

How many more dual before "high solo", and how many more before the check ride?

How many of these flights actually get into lift and give a good learning period,
and how many are just a ride back down from release?

For most training flights, the amount of time spent in the air is not all
that important. Learning how to handle the glider doesn't take all that
long. Even things like stall recovery, unusual attidutes, etc. don't
require that many flights. Learning how to find and work lift is always
good, of course, but you don't strictly need much for solo. What you do
need is to be able to take off, tow, and land reliably, and that's where
much of the pre-solo practice goes. You get to practice them the same
amount on each flight no matter how much lift you encounter, so this has
little influence on the number of training flights required.

When I was learning, I'd come to the airport any time the weather looked
flyable. If there was lift, great. If not, I didn't really care. Now I'm
much more careful about evaluating the weather beforehand to see if it's
going to be worth my while. Lift is much more important for having fun
than it is for learning.

--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon

At 21:39 08 June 2008, Alan wrote:

Much the same was true when I got my power license -- flying is
flying.

Does it
really
take 15 to 20 flights of dual before solo? What is covered in those,
and
how
can one take control of the process to make it more efficient?

The not-very-useful answer is that it takes as long as it
takes. If you're good at it, and catch on fast, it won't
take that long (took me 12 flights, as I recall). If you're
a little slow, it will take longer. Your instructor will know
when you're ready.

Largely, I expect it will depend on how quickly you catch
on to flying on tow - that's the part that is the most different
from flying power. Here's an interesting question that I
was asked during the questioning from the examiner before
I got my rating: Suppose you're flying along in a stable
straight glide, and you pull back on the stick - what happens
to your airspeed? Now suppose you're flying in normal
tow position behind the towplane, and you pull back on
the stick - what happens to your airspeed?

Also, if you've been flying taildraggers, you'll come along
a lot quicker, since you already know why God gave you
feet.

Jim Beckman (NJ)

Alan wrote:
... Does it really take 15 to 20 flights of dual before solo?


Pretty much. The airwork comes together pretty quickly but you need to
learn what those pedals on the floor are for. Without that, your tows
will be sloppy, at best. I did a demo flight for an experienced
tail-dragger pilot yesterday. He thought that he knew how to use the
rudder. He was wrong.

Your power instructor probably told you (as mine did) "if you don't like
your approach, go around". Well, guess what? :-) Before you solo you
need to convince your instructor that you can nail the landing every
time. And it's not quite the same as yo do it in power. You vary your
pattern and approach speed based on the wind speed and direction. You
have to anticipate and correct for wind gradients.

There's a lot to learn. It's fun.

Tony V. CFIG

Jim Logajan wrote:

http://www.kpflight.com/coburg.htm

I like this one :-).

Rule #23(B)
“Any pilot or passenger seen grinning from ear to ear after a flight
will be doused with water until the grin disappears.” This sometimes
takes quite a lot of water.

On Jun 6, 9:34*pm, Jim Logajan wrote:
Anyone have a rough idea of the amount to budget to earn a glider
certificate?

The glider training closest to me appears to be at this club:

http://www.kpflight.com/coburg.htm

I am not that familiar with the club or there cost, But I have worked
with their examiner, he is excellent and I have had several students
take their checkrides at this club.

You might also check out www.nwskysports.com in Hood River or the
Willamette Valley Soaring Club. They do a Soaring Safari at the Alvord
Desert every year in July where they specialize in ground launches.
There you might be able to arrange for a lot of training for a very
little cost.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL

First, this is a great sport. You will love it. Nothing will prepare
you for the wonderful silence after getting off tow for the first
time.

It appears that this club is slightly different than the norm (aren't
we all?). They have low yearly dues ($164 including SSA membership),
$10 per flight glider rental, $50 per 3000 foot tow and $30/hour for
an instructor. Let's assume it takes 30 rides to solo, each ride to
3000 feet lasting 30 mins (with ground school) over the course of one
year. That adds up to 164+30x10+30x50+30x30x0.5=$2414. So the $2500
was a pretty good guess.

My club is $650/year dues, no rental, no instructor fees, and $30 per
3000 foot tow. That adds up to 650+30x30=$1550.

Anyone have the numbers for a commercial operation?

However, you need to add in materials, FAA test fees (private), sweat
equity (it is a club after all) and the inevitable cost of the "I-need-
to-buy-my-own-glider" bug.

- John DeRosa