The ravages of time?

On Jun 17, 7:28*pm, Nyal Williams wrote:
Don't concern yourself with flaps. *You have lots to learn about weather,
strategy, finesse, subtlety. *

Thanks Nyal, I appreciate the info.

Having said that:

I know folks mean well, but really if I was in need of learning that
stuff, I wouldn't be having such a hard time making a decision!

The fact is that I've owned a Russia AC-4 for a year. With a 30:1
glider you _do_ learn to scratch and make low saves, trust me! The
40:1 performance may not be there, but you learn the same lessons as
you would in a standard-class ship.

And in the last year, I've become one of our main local weather gurus
(not saying a whole lot, given how unpredictable weather is in Seattle
- but I get it right more often than I get it wrong). I've taken
college-level meteorology courses, and given weather forecasting
presentations to local pilots.

On top of that, I flew R/C gliders for a few years before I got into
the "real thing", so I learned a lot of this stuff before I even
climbed into the cockpit. Furthermore, I got my SEL private pilot's
license before I got into gliding, so I was already competent when it
came to basic air-work. I almost went into aerospace engineering in
college, before dropping out to do computer-stuff; so I have a pretty
good understanding of aerodynamics and the physical processes acting
on the aircraft throughout the different phases of flight and
different weather phenomena.

On top of that I'm a 30 year old bachelor, and although I work long
hours, my main focus outside of my day-job *is* flying. So BELIEVE me
when I say that I *obsess* about this sport!!!! I do a ton of
research, education, and practice! As a small sample: I've read just
about every book published by both Wander and Knauff, multiple times.
I've studied every "Johnson report" ever published. I've read
Reichmann, Brigliadori, and others. I've gone through the King
Schools DVD training courses (for powered aircraft). I've got several
of the Sporty's training DVDs (including "Transition to Gliders"). I
own almost all of the glider movies published on DVD, and have watched
them all multiple times (both for enjoyment, and for strategy where
possible). I easily have 200+ hours in the Condor soaring simulator,
trying different X-C tactics and exploring the effects of wind and
weather over different terrain... Yes indeed, "obsess" is the right
word (someday soon I'll break away long enough to get a girlfriend
again... soon, I hope... ).

Its not that I'm trying to sound like a know-it-all. I *know* there
are still things for me to learn, and my skills will get better with a
lot of refining, and that I'm nowhere near as good as the guys (and
gals) that have been doing this for 10 or 20 (or more) years. They
regularly spank me, sure! At the airfield I am respectful, ask lots
of questions, and try to always learn something new.

But I'm a very fast learner - it was this way with auto-racing, R/C
flying, and most of my hobbies growing up. I move through the basics
rapidly and then plateau at a medium level of skill. My first season
of auto-racing I placed 3rd in the season championship. I took my PPL
SEL checkride with only 48 hours logged, and the examiner thought I
would have passed the test at commercial-level standards. However,
with most of my hobbies I tend to get frustrated after reaching that
first big plateau - being unable to catch the wise & experienced
folks, and stuck solidly in the middle of the pack after early
successes. Soaring is the first sport / hobby that has held my
interest and that I desire to be involved in for the long-term, even
if it means putting in years of practice to improve in small
incremental ways!

The bottom line is that I've moved beyond the basics. Not to sound
like an egotistical jerk, but I think I'm flying at least as well as
any pilot in my local area that's begun gliding in the last 5 years.
And *that* is why I worry about whether a plane without flaps would be
boring after a couple of years. Will I feel like the flaps are the
one thing keeping me from achieving higher inter-thermal speeds and
really going on long X-C flights? Its the question that keeps me
awake at night (after my eyes are tired from reading Johnson and
Idaflieg data).

...However, you can all rest easy knowing that I found a ship and am
about to make an offer on it (as soon as the A&P tells me its good to
go).

Hopefully it will bring an end to these titanic essays of mine,
right?? :-P

Oh, and its a Standard-Class ship, for the curious (masochistic?) few
who are still reading... ;-)

Take care,

--Noel

On Tue, 17 Jun 2008 23:19:25 -0700 (PDT), "noel.wade"
wrote:


The bottom line is that I've moved beyond the basics. Not to sound
like an egotistical jerk, but I think I'm flying at least as well as
any pilot in my local area that's begun gliding in the last 5 years.
And *that* is why I worry about whether a plane without flaps would be
boring after a couple of years. Will I feel like the flaps are the
one thing keeping me from achieving higher inter-thermal speeds and
really going on long X-C flights? Its the question that keeps me
awake at night (after my eyes are tired from reading Johnson and
Idaflieg data).

Hi Noel,

having read about all your phantastic skills, I have a very bad
message for you.

Unfortunately you are going to master all the fine points of flying a
flapped ship within four weeks. Since you already mastered all the XC
skills, too, there's nothing left to learn for you.

I'd strongly suggest to buy an EB-28, eta or Dick Butler's upcoming
Concordia... with gliders like that you have at least a few more
challenges, keeping gliding interesting for perhaps half a year
longer.


Bye
Andreas

noel.wade wrote:
Will I feel like the flaps are the
one thing keeping me from achieving higher inter-thermal speeds and
really going on long X-C flights? Its the question that keeps me
awake at night (after my eyes are tired from reading Johnson and
Idaflieg data).

Flaps really aren't the issue as I understand it. I've heard reports of
research that suggests that on a day when thermal averages (that's
average for the whole climb, not peak readings on the vario) are below 4
kts, standard class gliders achieve as good inter-thermal speeds as
flapped gliders. Above 4kt averages, flaps show an advantage. From what
I recall of this thread, you're flying in an area which has not
dissimilar conditions to the UK where I fly - few if any days will give
consistent 4kt+ averages.

The two things which affect your XC ability in such conditions a

1. L/D. In an AC4, you can't sample too many potential thermals before
the ground arrives. 40/1 plus gives you that ability. It should also
mean you need to stop less frequently to thermal, and thus achieve
higher speeds.

2. Polar curve. This, in my view is the biggest factor once your L/D is
high enough to make XC comparatively feasible (i.e. if the day is
soarable, you would expect to keep airborne and make progress unless you
screw up - to my mind this is 36+). I fly an Open Cirrus, which
definitely achieves 40+ L/D. However, the polar drops off steeply
compared to more modern designs, which means that as soon as I fly
faster than 50/55kt I burn off height rapidly. On a sub-4kt day, the
height losses in cruising at even 60kt are unlikely to be balanced by my
climbs, so I cruise at 50-55kt. This caps my XC speed, and there's
nothing I can do to increase it. Gliders with a flatter polar achieve
higher XC speeds than me because they can cruise at 65-70kt without
excessive height loss. On the other hand, I can beat them in really weak
weather (say, 3,000 ft cloudbase, 1-2 kt thermals). This doesn't mean I
can't manage XC flights, just that I can't manage them quickly. My next
aim is a 500k flight, and I'm reconciled to it taking me 8hrs in the UK
unless I hit a magic day.

I'd therefore suggest you look closely at the polar of any glider you're
thinking of buying, concentrating on the 60-80kt band. A good test might
be to work out the Macready 2 or 3 speed to fly - the higher that
number, the flatter the polar.

And of course, everything else in this thread is good advice to be taken
into account as well.

The bottom line is that I've moved beyond the basics. Not to sound
like an egotistical jerk, but I think I'm flying at least as well as
any pilot in my local area that's begun gliding in the last 5 years.
And *that* is why I worry about whether a plane without flaps would be
boring after a couple of years. Will I feel like the flaps are the
one thing keeping me from achieving higher inter-thermal speeds and
really going on long X-C flights? Its the question that keeps me
awake at night (after my eyes are tired from reading Johnson and
Idaflieg data).


Flaps will make a 2% difference in speed. Your skill level will make a
50% difference. Work on developing your skills.