Unpaved Landing areas

On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 11:06:07 -0700 (PDT), "Ol Shy & Bashful"
wrote in
:

How often do you get to land or take off from something other than a
paved runway?

Not very often.

Does this count?
http://members.tripod.com/airfields_...oy_CA_02_w.jpg
http://members.tripod.com/airfields_...o_SE.htm#amboy

In article ,
Larry Dighera wrote:

On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 11:06:07 -0700 (PDT), "Ol Shy & Bashful"
wrote in
:

How often do you get to land or take off from something other than a
paved runway?

Not very often.

Does this count?
http://members.tripod.com/airfields_...oy_CA_02_w.jpg
http://members.tripod.com/airfields_...ernardino_SE.h
tm#amboy

I used to fly my Johnson Rocket out of Frazier Lake, which is the only
irrigated sod airport in California. During the winter it got too soggy
and we used the parallel (paved) 30 ft wide taxiway. That got really
sporting with a 90 deg crosswind!

The best sod I have ever flown into is Leeward Air Ranch, in FL --
smooth as a putting green! I landed there and didn't know I had touched
down until the plane started decelerating on its own.

The hairiest was at Eustis, FL, when I landed there a couple of days
after some heavy rains. The grass was about 6 in. high. Touchdown
deceleration was FAST! It took a fair amount of power to taxi.

I wasn't sure we could take off, but decided to use full flaps to
produce max lift. I figured that, if I could rotate, it would fly; if
not, we had 3000 ft to play with. I must have left ruts on the
threshold, but got rotated and flew out.

--
Remove _'s from email address to talk to me.

On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 21:54:13 -0400, Orval Fairbairn
wrote in
:

I used to fly my Johnson Rocket out of Frazier Lake, which is the only
irrigated sod airport in California.

[Interesting stories snipped]

Did you ever land at that old crushed rock strip that used to be at
the north end of the Salton Sea? The one with the big hole at the
approach end, and a white line just beyond the hole as a threshold
marker.

Or how about another gravel field, Sun Hill Ranch Airport near
Adelanto: http://www.airnav.com/airport/CA70 ?

In article ,
Larry Dighera wrote:

On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 21:54:13 -0400, Orval Fairbairn
wrote in
:

I used to fly my Johnson Rocket out of Frazier Lake, which is the only
irrigated sod airport in California.

[Interesting stories snipped]

Did you ever land at that old crushed rock strip that used to be at
the north end of the Salton Sea? The one with the big hole at the
approach end, and a white line just beyond the hole as a threshold
marker.

Or how about another gravel field, Sun Hill Ranch Airport near
Adelanto: http://www.airnav.com/airport/CA70 ?

No -- Idid not do much flying in that area. I did land at Giant Rock one
time and talked to one of the saucer people, though.

--
Remove _'s from email address to talk to me.

On Fri, 27 Jun 2008 14:12:24 -0400, Orval Fairbairn
wrote in
:

I did land at Giant Rock one time and talked to one of the saucer people, though.

I over flew Giant Rock once in the late '90s, but thought better of
landing in the deep sand. I'd want to walk the "strip" before
intentionally landing there.

There's lots of "saucer people" out in the desert:
http://www.lucernevalley.net/giantrock/
http://www.labyrinthina.com/rock.htm
http://www.integratron.com/2History/History.html
http://www.elfis.net/rnr/rnrx/giantrock.htm
http://www.crawford2000.co.uk/hopisplit.htm


Good recent and historic Giant Rock photos he
http://havewebsiteswilltravel.com/co...Airport12.html
http://www.mbhs.net/more_photos.htm


I once did a low pass at the unpaved WWII USAAF tactical airstrip at
Essex, CA (scroll down):
http://members.tripod.com/airfields_....htm#campessex

The weeds were too high for the PA28-235 however.

Orval Fairbairn wrote in
news
In article ,
Larry Dighera wrote:

On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 11:06:07 -0700 (PDT), "Ol Shy & Bashful"
wrote in
:

How often do you get to land or take off from something other than a
paved runway?

Not very often.

Does this count?
http://members.tripod.com/airfields_...oy_CA_02_w.jpg
http://members.tripod.com/airfields_..._CA_SanBernard
ino_SE.h tm#amboy

I used to fly my Johnson Rocket out of Frazier Lake, which is the only
irrigated sod airport in California. During the winter it got too
soggy and we used the parallel (paved) 30 ft wide taxiway. That got
really sporting with a 90 deg crosswind!

The best sod I have ever flown into is Leeward Air Ranch, in FL --
smooth as a putting green! I landed there and didn't know I had
touched down until the plane started decelerating on its own.

The hairiest was at Eustis, FL, when I landed there a couple of days
after some heavy rains. The grass was about 6 in. high. Touchdown
deceleration was FAST! It took a fair amount of power to taxi.

I wasn't sure we could take off, but decided to use full flaps to
produce max lift. I figured that, if I could rotate, it would fly; if
not, we had 3000 ft to play with. I must have left ruts on the
threshold, but got rotated and flew out.


Orval -

Had Columbia (O22) completed their re-sodding of 11/29 before you left
the Bay area? After they finished, it was just like your description of
Leeward Air Ranch.

--
Marty Shapiro
Silicon Rallye Inc.

(remove SPAMNOT to email me)

In article ,
Marty Shapiro wrote:

Orval Fairbairn wrote in
news
In article ,
Larry Dighera wrote:

On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 11:06:07 -0700 (PDT), "Ol Shy & Bashful"
wrote in
:

How often do you get to land or take off from something other than a
paved runway?

Not very often.

Does this count?
http://members.tripod.com/airfields_...oy_CA_02_w.jpg
http://members.tripod.com/airfields_..._CA_SanBernard
ino_SE.h tm#amboy

I used to fly my Johnson Rocket out of Frazier Lake, which is the only
irrigated sod airport in California. During the winter it got too
soggy and we used the parallel (paved) 30 ft wide taxiway. That got
really sporting with a 90 deg crosswind!

The best sod I have ever flown into is Leeward Air Ranch, in FL --
smooth as a putting green! I landed there and didn't know I had
touched down until the plane started decelerating on its own.

The hairiest was at Eustis, FL, when I landed there a couple of days
after some heavy rains. The grass was about 6 in. high. Touchdown
deceleration was FAST! It took a fair amount of power to taxi.

I wasn't sure we could take off, but decided to use full flaps to
produce max lift. I figured that, if I could rotate, it would fly; if
not, we had 3000 ft to play with. I must have left ruts on the
threshold, but got rotated and flew out.


Orval -

Had Columbia (O22) completed their re-sodding of 11/29 before you left
the Bay area? After they finished, it was just like your description of
Leeward Air Ranch.

I never landed on 11.29 at Columbia -- I always used the paved runway.
There used to be an "air snake" there that would grab the unwary.

--
Remove _'s from email address to talk to me.

On Jun 26, 8:54*pm, Orval Fairbairn
wrote:
In article ,
*Larry Dighera wrote:

On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 11:06:07 -0700 (PDT), "Ol Shy & Bashful"
wrote in
:

How often do you get to land or take off from something other than a
paved runway?

Not very often.

Does this count?
http://members.tripod.com/airfields_...oy_CA_02_w.jpg
http://members.tripod.com/airfields_...s_CA_SanBernar...
tm#amboy

I used to fly my Johnson Rocket out of Frazier Lake, which is the only
irrigated sod airport in California. During the winter it got too soggy
and we used the parallel (paved) 30 ft wide taxiway. That got really
sporting with a 90 deg crosswind!

The best sod I have ever flown into is Leeward Air Ranch, in FL --
smooth as a putting green! I landed there and didn't know I had touched
down until the plane started decelerating on its own.

The hairiest was at Eustis, FL, when I landed there a couple of days
after some heavy rains. The grass was about 6 in. high. Touchdown
deceleration was FAST! It took a fair amount of power to taxi.

I wasn't sure we could take off, but decided to use full flaps to
produce max lift. I figured that, if I could rotate, it would fly; if
not, we had 3000 ft to play with. *I must have left ruts on the
threshold, but got rotated and flew out.

--
Remove _'s *from email address to talk to me.

Ummm ... not sure what you were flying but seems to me, FULL FLAPS is
in the drag flap area and not maximum lift. I can think of many
aircraft that state max flap for takeoff at 10 deg or whatever "one
notch" equates to. Now if you "rotate" at less than performance speed,
you're going to be in ground effect and perhaps get airborne but when
you get out of ground effect with that same low speed, you're going to
settle back to the runway with a high vertical velocity and no amount
of power will keep you from getting an enema from the main gear! Look
at airshow crashes when jet aircraft hit the runway trying to stop
that sink rate and they even have afterburner to help them out.
Takes some hard decisions to tell your PAX "we have to wait for better
conditions to get out of this mess I got us into."
Don't let that macho **** get you into a corner you can't get out of.
Trust me, it ain't worth it just to try to prove you are the ace of
the base. Don't let your rep become the "Ass of the base" .....?
Cheers
Ol S&B

In article
,
"Ol Shy & Bashful" wrote:

On Jun 26, 8:54*pm, Orval Fairbairn
wrote:
In article ,
*Larry Dighera wrote:

On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 11:06:07 -0700 (PDT), "Ol Shy & Bashful"
wrote in
:

How often do you get to land or take off from something other than a
paved runway?

Not very often.

Does this count?
http://members.tripod.com/airfields_...oy_CA_02_w.jpg
http://members.tripod.com/airfields_...s_CA_SanBernar...
tm#amboy

I used to fly my Johnson Rocket out of Frazier Lake, which is the only
irrigated sod airport in California. During the winter it got too soggy
and we used the parallel (paved) 30 ft wide taxiway. That got really
sporting with a 90 deg crosswind!

The best sod I have ever flown into is Leeward Air Ranch, in FL --
smooth as a putting green! I landed there and didn't know I had touched
down until the plane started decelerating on its own.

The hairiest was at Eustis, FL, when I landed there a couple of days
after some heavy rains. The grass was about 6 in. high. Touchdown
deceleration was FAST! It took a fair amount of power to taxi.

I wasn't sure we could take off, but decided to use full flaps to
produce max lift. I figured that, if I could rotate, it would fly; if
not, we had 3000 ft to play with. *I must have left ruts on the
threshold, but got rotated and flew out.

--
Remove _'s *from email address to talk to me.

Ummm ... not sure what you were flying but seems to me, FULL FLAPS is
in the drag flap area and not maximum lift. I can think of many
aircraft that state max flap for takeoff at 10 deg or whatever "one
notch" equates to. Now if you "rotate" at less than performance speed,
you're going to be in ground effect and perhaps get airborne but when
you get out of ground effect with that same low speed, you're going to
settle back to the runway with a high vertical velocity and no amount
of power will keep you from getting an enema from the main gear! Look
at airshow crashes when jet aircraft hit the runway trying to stop
that sink rate and they even have afterburner to help them out.
Takes some hard decisions to tell your PAX "we have to wait for better
conditions to get out of this mess I got us into."
Don't let that macho **** get you into a corner you can't get out of.
Trust me, it ain't worth it just to try to prove you are the ace of
the base. Don't let your rep become the "Ass of the base" .....?
Cheers
Ol S&B

I used full flaps, as I indicated, to create max lift, as the field was
very soggy, and I have a 5.00X4 nosewheel and 6.00X6 mains, on a 2550#
plane with 18#/ft2 wing loading. The Rocket will fly (and climb) with 45
deg barndoor split flaps.

Once rotated and airborne, I was able to start flaps and gear up, but
the problem at hand was to break free of the soggy runway.

BTW -- my pax was test pilot for the Lunar Module training vehicle. He
voiced no objections, as we had plenty of start/stop distance.

--
Remove _'s from email address to talk to me.

In article
,
Orval Fairbairn wrote:

BTW -- my pax was test pilot for the Lunar Module training vehicle. He
voiced no objections, as we had plenty of start/stop distance.

You had Neal Armstrong as your pax? WOW!!!