Glider flight software on non PDA devices- soon.

At 14:45 17 November 2008, Richard wrote:
On Nov 16, 10:51=A0pm, brianDG303 wrote:
Lots of us run flight software on a PDA and complain about the dim and
hard to read screen and can't help noticing those big bright GPS's
we
get to drive around with. It looks like SeeYou Mobile will soon run on
some GPS platforms and it's now in beta running on the HP IPAQ 310
(Travel Companion) family.

These are available for $180 factory refurbished or for $225 new.
There are a ton of reviews to google and I'm not going to repeat that
information here, but a few things- the overall size of the 310 is a
little smaller than my IPAQ 3970 but the screen is a little bigger.
The 310 is a landscape only display and measures 94mm wide by 58mm
tall.

=A0Screen brightness- The 310 is 4x the brightness of the IPAQ 3970
and
the same brightness as most other automotive GPS=92s. There are other
advantages to the 310 over a PDA, the anti reflective coating is state
of the art so no aftermarket glare film is needed, and those cut the
light output by at least 16%. The crispness and contrast of the
screen, which is off the charts, help a lot. And the easy to adjust
mount combined with fair off-angle viewing allows the unit to be
adjusted to an angle that will minimize glare.

Other news of interest: already an outfit in Europe has connected an
HP 310 running SYM 3.1 beta to FLARM via a serial to bluetooth
adapter, there is a link to a video of this, as well as a link to a
comparison photo of SYM on a 310 and a PDA on the Naviter forum site.

PocketFMS, PDA flight software for powered flight, is ahead of
everyone else in this game and have a longer list of PNA's that will
run ported software. This will give a clue as to which PNA's are good
candidates for this conversion in the long run and what attributes
they'll have. The firmware (I think that is the limitation) of each
PNA's version of WindowsCE determines some of the features. (I don't
know much about operating systems and am on shakey ground here,
corrections invited) For instance, The 310 display runs in landscape
mode as opposed to PDA's portrait, and for flight software it seems
like portrait is better. The firmware (or whatever) of the 310 does
not allow it to be run in portrait, other PNA's will. The PocketFMS
people use the bluetooth connection to integrate ZAON traffic alerts
so this is another possibility for gliders.

Brian

Brian,

I have a Ipaq 310 running SeeYou Mobile. SeeYou Mobile runs from the
SD Card so you can still use the Street Map Software on the 310. The
screen visibility in my opinion in direct sunlight is no better that
the Ipaq 55xx or 47xx. It has VGA resolution like the Ipaq 4700. You
can tilt the instrument to reduce the glare, but you can also do that
with the Ipaq 4700. The program runs well because of the 600 mHz
processor. I also have concerns as the 310 only has a landscape mode.
You cannot see very far ahead. I checked with HP to see about
Portrait. They said NO. Maybe they will change in the future. I
beleive it is an excellent cost effective option for those that don't
have a GPS. Its internal GPS runs fine in the Auto and should do well
in a glider. Unfortunately it does not have a serial port only USB so
maybe a USB to serial converter may work.

I will be adding mounts and cable kits to my website so you can power
the 310 from your glider battery.

If you really want to see the screen please see the Craggy Aero
Ultimate.

http://www.craggyaero.com/ultimate.htm


Thanks,

Richard
www.craggyaero.com




The USB - serial thing won't work unless this device is a Host/Master
device. PDAs etc. are normally Guest/Slave devices, PCs are Host/Master
devices.

On Nov 17, 8:30*am, Peter Wyld wrote:
At 14:45 17 November 2008, Richard wrote:





On Nov 16, 10:51=A0pm, brianDG303 *wrote:
Lots of us run flight software on a PDA and complain about the dim and
hard to read screen and can't help noticing those big bright GPS's
we
get to drive around with. It looks like SeeYou Mobile will soon run on
some GPS platforms and it's now in beta running on the HP IPAQ 310
(Travel Companion) family.

These are available for $180 factory refurbished or for $225 new.
There are a ton of reviews to google and I'm not going to repeat that
information here, but a few things- the overall size of the 310 is a
little smaller than my IPAQ 3970 but the screen is a little bigger.
The 310 is a landscape only display and measures 94mm wide by 58mm
tall.

=A0Screen brightness- The 310 is 4x the brightness of the IPAQ 3970
and
the same brightness as most other automotive GPS=92s. There are other
advantages to the 310 over a PDA, the anti reflective coating is state
of the art so no aftermarket glare film is needed, and those cut the
light output by at least 16%. The crispness and contrast of the
screen, which is off the charts, help a lot. And the easy to adjust
mount combined with fair off-angle viewing allows the unit to be
adjusted to an angle that will minimize glare.

Other news of interest: already an outfit in Europe has connected an
HP 310 running SYM 3.1 beta to FLARM via a serial to bluetooth
adapter, there is a link to a video of this, as well as a link to a
comparison photo of SYM on a 310 and a PDA on the Naviter forum site.

PocketFMS, PDA flight software for powered flight, is ahead of
everyone else in this game and have a longer list of PNA's that will
run ported software. This will give a clue as to which PNA's are good
candidates for this conversion in the long run and what attributes
they'll have. The firmware (I think that is the limitation) of each
PNA's version of WindowsCE determines some of the features. (I don't
know much about operating systems and am on shakey ground here,
corrections invited) For instance, The 310 display runs in landscape
mode as opposed to PDA's portrait, and for flight software it seems
like portrait is better. The firmware (or whatever) of the 310 does
not allow it to be run in portrait, other PNA's will. The PocketFMS
people use the bluetooth connection to integrate ZAON traffic alerts
so this is another possibility for gliders.

Brian

Brian,

I have a Ipaq 310 running SeeYou Mobile. *SeeYou Mobile runs from the
SD Card so you can still use the Street Map Software on the 310. * The
screen visibility in my opinion in direct sunlight is no better that
the Ipaq 55xx or 47xx. It has VGA resolution like the Ipaq 4700. * You
can tilt the instrument to reduce the glare, but you can also do that
with the Ipaq 4700. *The program runs well because of the 600 mHz
processor. I also have concerns as the 310 only has a landscape mode.
You cannot see very far ahead. * I checked with HP to see about
Portrait. *They said NO. *Maybe they will change in the future. * I
beleive it is an excellent cost effective option for those that don't
have a GPS. *Its internal GPS runs fine in the Auto and should do well
in a glider. *Unfortunately it does not have a serial port only USB so
maybe a USB to serial converter may work.

I will be adding *mounts and cable kits to my website so you can power
the 310 from your glider battery.

If you really want to see the screen please see the Craggy Aero
Ultimate.

http://www.craggyaero.com/ultimate.htm

Thanks,

Richard
www.craggyaero.com

The USB - serial thing won't work unless this device is a Host/Master
device. PDAs etc. are normally Guest/Slave devices, PCs are Host/Master
devices.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Peter,

Do you think a serial to bluetooth converter would work? Bluetooth to
the PDA. The converter would be on a CAI 302 or Borgelt B500.
Still we would need a cable to power the Ipaq device from the glider
battery.

Richard
www.craggyaero.com

Look at

http://www.k6-team.de/

Robert
ASW 28-18E RD


Richard skrev:
On Nov 17, 8:30 am, Peter Wyld wrote:
At 14:45 17 November 2008, Richard wrote:





On Nov 16, 10:51=A0pm, brianDG303 wrote:
Lots of us run flight software on a PDA and complain about the dim and
hard to read screen and can't help noticing those big bright GPS's
we
get to drive around with. It looks like SeeYou Mobile will soon run on
some GPS platforms and it's now in beta running on the HP IPAQ 310
(Travel Companion) family.
These are available for $180 factory refurbished or for $225 new.
There are a ton of reviews to google and I'm not going to repeat that
information here, but a few things- the overall size of the 310 is a
little smaller than my IPAQ 3970 but the screen is a little bigger.
The 310 is a landscape only display and measures 94mm wide by 58mm
tall.
=A0Screen brightness- The 310 is 4x the brightness of the IPAQ 3970
and
the same brightness as most other automotive GPS=92s. There are other
advantages to the 310 over a PDA, the anti reflective coating is state
of the art so no aftermarket glare film is needed, and those cut the
light output by at least 16%. The crispness and contrast of the
screen, which is off the charts, help a lot. And the easy to adjust
mount combined with fair off-angle viewing allows the unit to be
adjusted to an angle that will minimize glare.
Other news of interest: already an outfit in Europe has connected an
HP 310 running SYM 3.1 beta to FLARM via a serial to bluetooth
adapter, there is a link to a video of this, as well as a link to a
comparison photo of SYM on a 310 and a PDA on the Naviter forum site.
PocketFMS, PDA flight software for powered flight, is ahead of
everyone else in this game and have a longer list of PNA's that will
run ported software. This will give a clue as to which PNA's are good
candidates for this conversion in the long run and what attributes
they'll have. The firmware (I think that is the limitation) of each
PNA's version of WindowsCE determines some of the features. (I don't
know much about operating systems and am on shakey ground here,
corrections invited) For instance, The 310 display runs in landscape
mode as opposed to PDA's portrait, and for flight software it seems
like portrait is better. The firmware (or whatever) of the 310 does
not allow it to be run in portrait, other PNA's will. The PocketFMS
people use the bluetooth connection to integrate ZAON traffic alerts
so this is another possibility for gliders.
Brian
Brian,
I have a Ipaq 310 running SeeYou Mobile. SeeYou Mobile runs from the
SD Card so you can still use the Street Map Software on the 310. The
screen visibility in my opinion in direct sunlight is no better that
the Ipaq 55xx or 47xx. It has VGA resolution like the Ipaq 4700. You
can tilt the instrument to reduce the glare, but you can also do that
with the Ipaq 4700. The program runs well because of the 600 mHz
processor. I also have concerns as the 310 only has a landscape mode.
You cannot see very far ahead. I checked with HP to see about
Portrait. They said NO. Maybe they will change in the future. I
beleive it is an excellent cost effective option for those that don't
have a GPS. Its internal GPS runs fine in the Auto and should do well
in a glider. Unfortunately it does not have a serial port only USB so
maybe a USB to serial converter may work.
I will be adding mounts and cable kits to my website so you can power
the 310 from your glider battery.
If you really want to see the screen please see the Craggy Aero
Ultimate.
http://www.craggyaero.com/ultimate.htm
Thanks,
Richard
www.craggyaero.com
The USB - serial thing won't work unless this device is a Host/Master
device. PDAs etc. are normally Guest/Slave devices, PCs are Host/Master
devices.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Peter,

Do you think a serial to bluetooth converter would work? Bluetooth to
the PDA. The converter would be on a CAI 302 or Borgelt B500.
Still we would need a cable to power the Ipaq device from the glider
battery.

Richard
www.craggyaero.com

On Nov 17, 8:48*am, Richard wrote:
On Nov 17, 8:30*am, Peter Wyld wrote:



At 14:45 17 November 2008, Richard wrote:

On Nov 16, 10:51=A0pm, brianDG303 *wrote:
Lots of us run flight software on a PDA and complain about the dim and
hard to read screen and can't help noticing those big bright GPS's
we
get to drive around with. It looks like SeeYou Mobile will soon run on
some GPS platforms and it's now in beta running on the HP IPAQ 310
(Travel Companion) family.

These are available for $180 factory refurbished or for $225 new.
There are a ton of reviews to google and I'm not going to repeat that
information here, but a few things- the overall size of the 310 is a
little smaller than my IPAQ 3970 but the screen is a little bigger.
The 310 is a landscape only display and measures 94mm wide by 58mm
tall.

=A0Screen brightness- The 310 is 4x the brightness of the IPAQ 3970
and
the same brightness as most other automotive GPS=92s. There are other
advantages to the 310 over a PDA, the anti reflective coating is state
of the art so no aftermarket glare film is needed, and those cut the
light output by at least 16%. The crispness and contrast of the
screen, which is off the charts, help a lot. And the easy to adjust
mount combined with fair off-angle viewing allows the unit to be
adjusted to an angle that will minimize glare.

Other news of interest: already an outfit in Europe has connected an
HP 310 running SYM 3.1 beta to FLARM via a serial to bluetooth
adapter, there is a link to a video of this, as well as a link to a
comparison photo of SYM on a 310 and a PDA on the Naviter forum site..

PocketFMS, PDA flight software for powered flight, is ahead of
everyone else in this game and have a longer list of PNA's that will
run ported software. This will give a clue as to which PNA's are good
candidates for this conversion in the long run and what attributes
they'll have. The firmware (I think that is the limitation) of each
PNA's version of WindowsCE determines some of the features. (I don't
know much about operating systems and am on shakey ground here,
corrections invited) For instance, The 310 display runs in landscape
mode as opposed to PDA's portrait, and for flight software it seems
like portrait is better. The firmware (or whatever) of the 310 does
not allow it to be run in portrait, other PNA's will. The PocketFMS
people use the bluetooth connection to integrate ZAON traffic alerts
so this is another possibility for gliders.

Brian

Brian,

I have a Ipaq 310 running SeeYou Mobile. *SeeYou Mobile runs from the
SD Card so you can still use the Street Map Software on the 310. * The
screen visibility in my opinion in direct sunlight is no better that
the Ipaq 55xx or 47xx. It has VGA resolution like the Ipaq 4700. * You
can tilt the instrument to reduce the glare, but you can also do that
with the Ipaq 4700. *The program runs well because of the 600 mHz
processor. I also have concerns as the 310 only has a landscape mode.
You cannot see very far ahead. * I checked with HP to see about
Portrait. *They said NO. *Maybe they will change in the future. * I
beleive it is an excellent cost effective option for those that don't
have a GPS. *Its internal GPS runs fine in the Auto and should do well
in a glider. *Unfortunately it does not have a serial port only USB so
maybe a USB to serial converter may work.

I will be adding *mounts and cable kits to my website so you can power
the 310 from your glider battery.

If you really want to see the screen please see the Craggy Aero
Ultimate.

http://www.craggyaero.com/ultimate.htm

Thanks,

Richard
www.craggyaero.com

The USB - serial thing won't work unless this device is a Host/Master
device. PDAs etc. are normally Guest/Slave devices, PCs are Host/Master
devices.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Peter,

Do you think a serial to bluetooth converter would work? *Bluetooth to
the PDA. * *The converter would be on a CAI 302 or Borgelt B500.
Still we would need a cable to power the Ipaq device from the glider
battery.

Richardwww.craggyaero.com

It should be possible to find a serial to blue tooth convector that
should work as long as the PDA/device supports a serial port profile
(SPP), which Windows Mobile PDAs and the WinCE based iPAQ 310 do. The
issue is testing/finding a converter. Some are broken, have horrible
documentation, too large/awkward to fit on the end of C302 (so you
would wire those in with a cable). Some models have status LEDs, which
might prove awfully useful when configuring/trying to work out what is
happening. Unless it is trivial to access behind the panel you
probably want to mount the converter where the bluetooth pairing
button can be accessed (for use when your PDA blows it's brains out
and you need to re-pair the bluetooth link), being able to also see
the status LEDs on the conveter while doing this would be handy. You
should probably expect to need a gender changing cable on a C302 to
the adapter.

Geeking out here, but of the high-end adapters look really impressive,
e.g. http://www.sena.com/products/industr...oth/sd1000.php
(notice documentation, status LEDs, upgradeable firmware, ...)
overkill, and sadly this one does not appear to be wired to leech
power off pin 9, but I could be wrong.

I started looking around for adapters for another use, but never
tested them so cannot recommend a specific model, except I would stay
away from the junky IOGEAR adapter.

Darryl

Have been watching the threads on the 310 with interest - my google trap
fror the 310 recently threw up a potential Portrait mode driver -
I dont have a 310 so this is UNTESTED
see http://kpr3712.npage.de/downloads_89312177.html

rgds
Stephen

XCSoar on $200 in car navigator :

http://blipmap.walsys.net/forum/index.php?topic=95.0

Updated link:

http://www.users.on.net/~dsg/HG/xcsoarX350.html

On Nov 17, 12:45*pm, Stephen Haley wrote:
Have been watching the threads on the 310 with interest - my google trap
fror the 310 recently threw up a potential Portrait mode driver -
I dont have a 310 so this is UNTESTED
seehttp://kpr3712.npage.de/downloads_89312177.html

rgds
Stephen

Stephen,

Thanks it worked and the screen is rotated portrait running SeeYou
Mobile. It took a lot of fussing around.

Richard
www.craggyaero.com

{It took a lot of fussing around.}

Richard,
thanks for that. The gang at PocketFMS swears up and down it can't be
done so I assumed it was not possible.

Is this fussing that can be explained, or is it beyond us mortals? I
personally could be happy with landscape.

mounts.
I suspect that using the suction cup to stick the 310 to the glass
face of the altimeter won't get much approval. The ball and socket
part of the mount ends in a 1/2" flat that meets the flat of a
tightening knob. If the suction cup support arm was cut away a small
hole could be drilled into flat stock (or the panel itself)and the 310
mount could be attached by by using the tightening knob as a mounting
bolt.

On Nov 17, 3:30*pm, brianDG303 wrote:
{It took a lot of fussing around.}

Richard,
thanks for that. The gang at PocketFMS swears up and down it can't be
done so I assumed it was not possible.

Is this fussing that can be explained, or is it beyond us mortals? I
personally could be happy with landscape.

mounts.
I suspect that using the suction cup to stick the 310 to the glass
face of the altimeter won't get much approval. The ball and socket
part of the mount ends in a 1/2" flat that meets the flat of a
tightening knob. If the suction cup support arm was cut away a small
hole could be drilled into flat stock (or the panel itself)and the 310
mount could be attached by by using the tightening knob as a mounting
bolt.

Brian,

Fisrt of all you need SeeYou Mobile installed on the SD Card. Then
start the 310 SeeYou Mobile will run, shut it down and connect with
active sync.

You have to copy the .cab file to the flash drive of you Ipaq 310 and
run it to install. Then run the rotate program it installs.

I will have a cable and power converter kit on my web in a couple of
days to power the 310 from your glider battery.

I will also have mounting solutions with a tilt swivel that connects
to goosenecks or ram mounts that I already sell.

The GPS seems to work OK with the unit sideways, I will do more
testing.

Also I have contacted SeeYou with the information. Some tuning of the
Beta program will be needed to make it look better. But it appears to
work.


Richard
www.craggyaero.com