Question on FAA knowledge test endorsements.

In rec.aviation.soaring Jim Logajan wrote:
"The Private Pilot on line course endorsement is for the private pilot
fixed wing test.

Glider information is not covered in the course and the endorsement will
not include glider."

The "fixed wing" part kinda threw me - and now I'm even more confused. I
had no idea the tests had yet another classification - one in which gliders
aren't fixed wing aircraft! Geez - I hope there aren't any questions on the
FAA knowledge tests about the FAA knowledge tests - at this point I'd
flunk! :-)

Don't let it throw you, I'm pretty sure they're just using "fixed-wing" to
mean that it's not for helicopters and such.

I can't answer your original question as to just how specific the
endorsement was. But I just wanted to throw in that my instructor was
happy letting me go off and study on my own for a while with various
materials, including the big cheating test-prep book with the entire
question bank in it, and then he signed me off when I said that I was done
and ready to take the test. Depending on your instructor and your learning
style this may not be appropriate for you, but for me at least this
preparation was more than sufficient.

--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon

Michael Ash wrote:

In rec.aviation.soaring Jim Logajan wrote:
"The Private Pilot on line course endorsement is for the private
pilot fixed wing test.

Glider information is not covered in the course and the endorsement
will not include glider."

The "fixed wing" part kinda threw me - and now I'm even more
confused. I had no idea the tests had yet another classification -
one in which gliders aren't fixed wing aircraft! Geez - I hope there
aren't any questions on the FAA knowledge tests about the FAA
knowledge tests - at this point I'd flunk! :-)

Don't let it throw you, I'm pretty sure they're just using
"fixed-wing" to mean that it's not for helicopters and such.

I wonder if I should ask Sporty's or King Schools for the template they
use for their endorsements. All their ads (and websites) claim their
courses are for "Private Pilot" - no "airplane" qualifier obvious to me,
anyway. No doubt they believe that goes without saying in their airplane-
centric world.

I can't answer your original question as to just how specific the
endorsement was. But I just wanted to throw in that my instructor was
happy letting me go off and study on my own for a while with various
materials, including the big cheating test-prep book with the entire
question bank in it, and then he signed me off when I said that I was
done and ready to take the test. Depending on your instructor and your
learning style this may not be appropriate for you, but for me at
least this preparation was more than sufficient.

I briefly discussed the knowledge test endorsement issue up with my
principal CFI during the summer but due to the informal setting after
flights and my leisurely pace, I didn't look into the matter more deeply
till now. I think I've allowed the deceptive nature of the Sporty's/King
ads to confuse me - and the response from Sporty's support is even more
confusing, since there doesn't appear to be any FAA "fixed wing" test.

I'll have to contact my principal CFI-G and discuss with her what I
should do to get her endorsement. I can't rely on any endorsement issued
by Sporty's or King Schools courses to be valid for taking that exam, and
that it's a long wait for the next ground school.

I wonder if I should ask Sporty's or King Schools for the template they
use for their endorsements. All their ads (and websites) claim their
courses are for "Private Pilot" - no "airplane" qualifier obvious to me,
anyway. No doubt they believe that goes without saying in their airplane-
centric world.


No, Hartley and Chip gave you the correct advice.

6. Aeronautical Knowledge - FAR 61.35(a) & 61.105(b)(1-13)
I certify that I have given Mr/Ms the applicable ground instruction
required by FAR 61.105(b)(1-13) and find him/her prepared for the
private pilot - glider aeronautical knowledge test.

FAR 61.105 reads:
§ 61.105 Aeronautical knowledge.

(a) General. A person who is applying for a private pilot certificate
must receive and log ground training from an authorized instructor or
complete a home-study course on the aeronautical knowledge areas of
paragraph (b) of this section that apply to the aircraft category and
class rating sought.

Note that the test is for category and class. The category in this case
is "glider" (category examples a airplane, glider, helicopter, etc).

Tony V. CFIG

....All their ads (Sportys and King) .... claim
their courses are for "Private Pilot" - no "airplane" qualifier
obvious to me, anyway. No doubt they believe that goes without saying
in their airplane-centric world.


This is a pretty accurate observation. The same holds true for NAFI
(National Association of Flight Instructors) and is why I (rather
loudly) resigned from that organization in protest.

Back in 2002, in their printed monthly news letter, they announced that
the PTS (Practical Test Standard) was changing and that we needed to
prepare our students for the new tests. I sent them a very polite letter
that said it was only the *airplane* PTS that was changing and to please
send a correction in their regular weekly emailed news updates. They
didn't. A subsequent flurry of emails showed that they absolutely didn't
care about non-airplane instructors. And, since I instruct only in
gliders, there was no point in me being part of that organization.

Tony V.
http://home.comcast.net/~verhulst/SOARING

In rec.aviation.soaring Jim Logajan wrote:
Michael Ash wrote:

In rec.aviation.soaring Jim Logajan wrote:
"The Private Pilot on line course endorsement is for the private
pilot fixed wing test.

Glider information is not covered in the course and the endorsement
will not include glider."

The "fixed wing" part kinda threw me - and now I'm even more
confused. I had no idea the tests had yet another classification -
one in which gliders aren't fixed wing aircraft! Geez - I hope there
aren't any questions on the FAA knowledge tests about the FAA
knowledge tests - at this point I'd flunk! :-)

Don't let it throw you, I'm pretty sure they're just using
"fixed-wing" to mean that it's not for helicopters and such.

I wonder if I should ask Sporty's or King Schools for the template they
use for their endorsements. All their ads (and websites) claim their
courses are for "Private Pilot" - no "airplane" qualifier obvious to me,
anyway. No doubt they believe that goes without saying in their airplane-
centric world.

There's probably no point. I'm sure the materials are for the airplane
test, and no doubt the endorsement is as well. It wouldn't hurt to ask,
but unless they're supplying glider-specific test prep, they're probably
not supplying glider test endorsements. Wouldn't hurt to ask them though.

I can't answer your original question as to just how specific the
endorsement was. But I just wanted to throw in that my instructor was
happy letting me go off and study on my own for a while with various
materials, including the big cheating test-prep book with the entire
question bank in it, and then he signed me off when I said that I was
done and ready to take the test. Depending on your instructor and your
learning style this may not be appropriate for you, but for me at
least this preparation was more than sufficient.

I briefly discussed the knowledge test endorsement issue up with my
principal CFI during the summer but due to the informal setting after
flights and my leisurely pace, I didn't look into the matter more deeply
till now. I think I've allowed the deceptive nature of the Sporty's/King
ads to confuse me - and the response from Sporty's support is even more
confusing, since there doesn't appear to be any FAA "fixed wing" test.

I'll have to contact my principal CFI-G and discuss with her what I
should do to get her endorsement. I can't rely on any endorsement issued
by Sporty's or King Schools courses to be valid for taking that exam, and
that it's a long wait for the next ground school.

Sounds like the way to go. He may not press you too hard. My conversation
was pretty much just, "did you go through everything?" "yep" "are you
ready for the test?" "yep" "ok, gimme that endorsement and I'll sign it".
Of course not every CFIG will be quite so laid back.

(For what it's worth, just in case anyone is thinking that he was too lax,
I did quite well on the test.)

--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon

On Nov 20, 11:57*pm, Jim Logajan wrote:
Simple question (for everyone but me!):

Is the CFI endorsement to take a private pilot test for a specific category
(e.g. airplane, rotorcraft, glider) or a category and class (e.g. airplane,
single engine land) or some other classsification (e.g. fixed-wing), or not
category or class specific?

I ask because I thought I would take some winter down time to work on
passing the knowledge test needed to earn a private pilot, glider
certificate. I do not hold any previous certificates (other than student
pilot.)

I was training at a glider club this summer and ground training was not
something they normally did - the local community college offers ground
school courses a couple times a year - but the next class doesn't start
till spring. I asked what other options they knew about and they thought
courses offered by King and Sporty's might be a possibility. That sounded
plausible but their DVD courses looked airplane-centric, so I contacted
Sporty's. I asked them if I passed their Private Pilot DVD course and got
an endorsement from them, would that endorsement allow me to take the
knowledge test for a private pilot, glider rating? Their answer was:

"The Private Pilot on line course endorsement is for the private pilot
fixed wing test.

Glider information is not covered in the course and the endorsement will
not include glider."

The "fixed wing" part kinda threw me - and now I'm even more confused. I
had no idea the tests had yet another classification - one in which gliders
aren't fixed wing aircraft! Geez - I hope there aren't any questions on the
FAA knowledge tests about the FAA knowledge tests - at this point I'd
flunk! :-)

Here is a publication from the FAA on knowledge testing.

http://www.faa.gov/education_researc...G-8082-17d.pdf

There is one test that you need to take, the Private Pilot Knowledge
Test - Glider. You can research the questions from the Private Pilot
Knowledge Test Questions, found he

http://www.faa.gov/education_researc.../media/pvt.pdf

The test code for the Private Glider Test is PGL, however usually the
easiest way to find content for the specific test that you are taking
is seaching the bank for glider or other applicable terms.

--Robbie
http://soyouwannabeapilot.blogspot.com

aussieman02 wrote:
Here is a publication from the FAA on knowledge testing.

http://www.faa.gov/education_researc..._guides/media/
FAA-G-8082-17d.pdf

Thanks - that helps. Looks like the FAA's knowledge tests aren't classified
by category or class, but some other scheme.

Jim... I am sure what the Sporty's Agent meant to say.. is that passing the
Private Pilot DVD Course will provide an endorsement for the Private Pilot
Airplane Single Engine Land written exam.

There are glider specific questions that are not covered in the "Airplane"
course.
You would need one of the instructors to provide the endorsement to take the
Private Pilot Glider Exam.
Any instructor could provide the endorsement, not just a glider instructor.

BT
CFI-Glider

"Jim Logajan" wrote in message
.. .
Simple question (for everyone but me!):

Is the CFI endorsement to take a private pilot test for a specific
category
(e.g. airplane, rotorcraft, glider) or a category and class (e.g.
airplane,
single engine land) or some other classsification (e.g. fixed-wing), or
not
category or class specific?

I ask because I thought I would take some winter down time to work on
passing the knowledge test needed to earn a private pilot, glider
certificate. I do not hold any previous certificates (other than student
pilot.)

I was training at a glider club this summer and ground training was not
something they normally did - the local community college offers ground
school courses a couple times a year - but the next class doesn't start
till spring. I asked what other options they knew about and they thought
courses offered by King and Sporty's might be a possibility. That sounded
plausible but their DVD courses looked airplane-centric, so I contacted
Sporty's. I asked them if I passed their Private Pilot DVD course and got
an endorsement from them, would that endorsement allow me to take the
knowledge test for a private pilot, glider rating? Their answer was:

"The Private Pilot on line course endorsement is for the private pilot
fixed wing test.

Glider information is not covered in the course and the endorsement will
not include glider."

The "fixed wing" part kinda threw me - and now I'm even more confused. I
had no idea the tests had yet another classification - one in which
gliders
aren't fixed wing aircraft! Geez - I hope there aren't any questions on
the
FAA knowledge tests about the FAA knowledge tests - at this point I'd
flunk! :-)

First of all:

"Fixed wing" is not in the FAA regulatory framework lanuguage.

Categories of Aircraft include:

Airplanes
Rotocraft
Gliders
Lighter than Air

Class of aircraft include (For Category Airplanes):

Single engine land
Single engine sea
Multi-engine land
Multi-engine sea

Where the problem came in is the salesperson's use of the term"fixed wing."
The knowledge tests for private and commercial are Category specific but not
class specific. Typically one takes a knowledge test for Private pilot for
airplanes. Pursues and receives training for practical test and passes all
three exams (written, oral and practical). Then wants to pursue gliders.
Separate category, therefore different written exam. Different training
requirements, even though both are "fixed wing". Another oral and
practical exam. There is no US FAA category of "fixed wing." Gliders are
not airplanes and airplanes are not gliders; even if they have engine
failure ;-) both are aircraft, in regulatory language.

It is easier to add on class(es) of airplanes. You can't really "add-on" a
new category, you must meet all the requirements as if you are starting from
zero (with some exceptions IIRC). Hope that helps. BTW, these kind of
distinctions are great subjects on any PPL oral exam.

Regards,

Watson


"BT" wrote in message
...
Jim... I am sure what the Sporty's Agent meant to say.. is that passing
the Private Pilot DVD Course will provide an endorsement for the Private
Pilot Airplane Single Engine Land written exam.

There are glider specific questions that are not covered in the "Airplane"
course.
You would need one of the instructors to provide the endorsement to take
the Private Pilot Glider Exam.
Any instructor could provide the endorsement, not just a glider
instructor.

BT
CFI-Glider

"Jim Logajan" wrote in message
.. .
Simple question (for everyone but me!):

Is the CFI endorsement to take a private pilot test for a specific
category
(e.g. airplane, rotorcraft, glider) or a category and class (e.g.
airplane,
single engine land) or some other classsification (e.g. fixed-wing), or
not
category or class specific?

I ask because I thought I would take some winter down time to work on
passing the knowledge test needed to earn a private pilot, glider
certificate. I do not hold any previous certificates (other than student
pilot.)

I was training at a glider club this summer and ground training was not
something they normally did - the local community college offers ground
school courses a couple times a year - but the next class doesn't start
till spring. I asked what other options they knew about and they thought
courses offered by King and Sporty's might be a possibility. That sounded
plausible but their DVD courses looked airplane-centric, so I contacted
Sporty's. I asked them if I passed their Private Pilot DVD course and got
an endorsement from them, would that endorsement allow me to take the
knowledge test for a private pilot, glider rating? Their answer was:

"The Private Pilot on line course endorsement is for the private pilot
fixed wing test.

Glider information is not covered in the course and the endorsement will
not include glider."

The "fixed wing" part kinda threw me - and now I'm even more confused. I
had no idea the tests had yet another classification - one in which
gliders
aren't fixed wing aircraft! Geez - I hope there aren't any questions on
the
FAA knowledge tests about the FAA knowledge tests - at this point I'd
flunk! :-)

Jim,

I suggest you check out my training books. The "Glider Pilots
Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge" covers everything you need to pass
the written test. A companion workbook is available that includes
every question that is on the written test, as well as many others.
If you can answer all the questions in the workbook, and can pass the
online practice test at www.exams4pilots.org you should have no
trouble passing the written test. You can present your completed
workbook and a printout of a practice test as evidence to your
instructor that you have completed a "home self-study" course, which
should be sufficient to get the sign off.

If you would like to see excerpts from the book, you can go to the
website www.gliderbooks.com.

Hope this helps.

Russell