Glider Safety

On 2/22/2010 1:11 PM, Mike the Strike wrote:
On Feb 22, 10:55 am,
wrote:
Right. Let us inflict more restrictions on ourselves. For the
children of course. If it is a good idea for contests then it is good
idea for everyone...



Is there a case for requiring a medical certificate for SSA sanctioned
contests?

Andy


I am unaware of any third party being injured from a glider accident
resulting from incapacity of the pilot. After all, sailplanes are
pretty light and don't burn. However, it's pretty unsettling to the
rest of us. I was at Parowan last year and was also personally
affected by one such incident. You'd get my vote for requiring a
medical certificate.

You could also make a case for requiring a medical certificate for
pilots instructing and carrying passengers, but again, I doubt that
there is much of an accident database to support the need for this.

Mike
Why would it be more unsettling to someone for a glider pilot to have a
heart attack while flying and have a quick end doing what he/she loves,
vs having the same heart attack on the ground, which depending on the
circumstances may leave the person with a miserable quality of life.

I can understand the argument that we should protect innocent bystanders
from being injured as a result of a pilot's medical condition. That
same argument applies to automobiles, where an accident resulting from a
medical event is probably a lot more likely to injure a bystander than a
glider accident.

The reality is that there are a lot of glider pilots (myself included)
who ended up in the sport because it became too much of a hassle to keep
our medicals. If we start requiring medicals for soaring, it will
devastate the sport.

Personally, I'd love to live my final moments doing what I love, and
hope that all of my friends and family will share in that joy and be
thankful that I had a quick and uncomplicated end.



Mike Schumann

--
Mike Schumann

On Feb 23, 5:23*pm, Mike Schumann
wrote:
On 2/22/2010 1:11 PM, Mike the Strike wrote:



On Feb 22, 10:55 am,
wrote:
Right. *Let us inflict more restrictions on ourselves. *For the
children of course. *If it is a good idea for contests then it is good
idea for everyone...

Is there a case for requiring a medical certificate for SSA sanctioned
contests?

Andy

I am unaware of any third party being injured from a glider accident
resulting from incapacity of the pilot. *After all, sailplanes are
pretty light and don't burn. *However, it's pretty unsettling to the
rest of us. *I was at Parowan last year and was also personally
affected by one such incident. *You'd get my vote for requiring a
medical certificate.

You could also make a case for requiring a medical certificate for
pilots instructing and carrying passengers, but again, I doubt that
there is much of an accident database to support the need for this.

Mike

Why would it be more unsettling to someone for a glider pilot to have a
heart attack while flying and have a quick end doing what he/she loves,
vs having the same heart attack on the ground, which depending on the
circumstances may leave the person with a miserable quality of life.

I can understand the argument that we should protect innocent bystanders
from being injured as a result of a pilot's medical condition. *That
same argument applies to automobiles, where an accident resulting from a
medical event is probably a lot more likely to injure a bystander than a
glider accident.

The reality is that there are a lot of glider pilots (myself included)
who ended up in the sport because it became too much of a hassle to keep
our medicals. *If we start requiring medicals for soaring, it will
devastate the sport.

Personally, I'd love to live my final moments doing what I love, and
hope that all of my friends and family will share in that joy and be
thankful that I had a quick and uncomplicated end.

Mike Schumann

--
Mike Schumann

well said..........

Brad

On Feb 23, 8:23*pm, Mike Schumann
wrote:

Personally, I'd love to live my final moments doing what I love, and
hope that all of my friends and family will share in that joy and be
thankful that I had a quick and uncomplicated end.


You ever help clean up a wreck in the woods after a fatal?

It ain't exactly a treat.

-Evan Ludeman / T8

T8 wrote:
On Feb 23, 8:23*pm, Mike Schumann
wrote:

Personally, I'd love to live my final moments doing what I love, and
hope that all of my friends and family will share in that joy and be
thankful that I had a quick and uncomplicated end.


You ever help clean up a wreck in the woods after a fatal?

It ain't exactly a treat.

Since that is a point applicable to all fatal accidents (train, plane, and
automobile) and all causal chains leading to those accidents, its non-
uniqueness effectively makes it irrelevant to requiring a glider medical.

On Feb 23, 8:50*pm, Jim Logajan wrote:
T8 wrote:
On Feb 23, 8:23*pm, Mike Schumann
wrote:

Personally, I'd love to live my final moments doing what I love, and
hope that all of my friends and family will share in that joy and be
thankful that I had a quick and uncomplicated end.

You ever help clean up a wreck in the woods after a fatal?

It ain't exactly a treat.

Since that is a point applicable to all fatal accidents (train, plane, and
automobile) and all causal chains leading to those accidents, its non-
uniqueness effectively makes it irrelevant to requiring a glider medical.

I don't support requiring glider medicals. I took the previous
poster's comments to be a version of John Denver's "I wanna die in my
airplane". I take issue with sentiments like these. Messy, bad for
the sport. It's a sh!tty thing to wish for.

-Evan

T8 wrote:
I don't support requiring glider medicals. I took the previous
poster's comments to be a version of John Denver's "I wanna die in my
airplane". I take issue with sentiments like these. Messy, bad for
the sport. It's a sh!tty thing to wish for.
And it destroys a perfectly good glider someone else could have enjoyed
for many years. So, do your last flying in a two seater so the other
pilot can bring the glider back.

I don't think glider medicals will make much difference, and the AOPA
doesn't think the facts support medicals for the smaller GA planes, either

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (netto to net to email me)

- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Feb/2010" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm http://tinyurl.com/yb3xywl

- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation Mar/2004" Much of what you need to know tinyurl.com/yfs7tnz

On Feb 23, 5:40*pm, T8 wrote:
On Feb 23, 8:23*pm, Mike Schumann
wrote:

Personally, I'd love to live my final moments doing what I love, and
hope that all of my friends and family will share in that joy and be
thankful that I had a quick and uncomplicated end.

You ever help clean up a wreck in the woods after a fatal?

It ain't exactly a treat.

-Evan Ludeman / T8

Twice.................it ain't a treat...............but it was worse
for us than them, at least I have to hope that was the case. I'd still
rather go out that way than with DNR.

I cannot give up that easily -- I hope to die in my sleep, like my
Uncle Ray, not screaming like his passengers.

Sincerely, I don't buy the "doing what he loved" bit. I love life, so
I hang onto it, try to savor every minute.

Re-currrent training to a high level of proficiency (different for
every pilot) is what is needed to reverse the horrible safety trend in
glider flying (and aerotowing.).
Go fly with a seasoned instructor for an afternoon and get a "real"
Flight Review.
Beware the "he or she is an experienced pilot" excuse. Laws of
gravity and aerodynamics are no less fatal to the "skygods."
Offer to simply ride along as copilot in a two seater with the older
pilots - don't send them to the golf course.
Try intervention with miss-behaving glider pilots and your rogue
towpilots who insist on a wingover and an aggressive dive just seconds
after you release.

Speak up about the pilots that you have already identified as "an
accident waiting to happen", then look to yourself.
Why are we waiting?

Speak up about the pilots that you have already identified as "an
accident waiting to happen", then look to yourself.
Why are we waiting?

I'd be somewhat careful about this comment. Ultra-conservative flag
pole sitters love to criticize pilots who go out and polish the rocks
and do things they consider "unsafe"

I would have to think those pilots, and some of them are CFIG's would
love to pull an intervention on a few of us. Question is, are they
really safer than me?

A few of us spent 2.5 hours in close proximity to rocks and trees
yesterday for a spectacular ridge/mountain flight. To my knowledge,
none of the local instructors were there, or have done anything like
that in years, if ever.

So, are you telling me they are going to tell me how to fly safe?

I get a BFR in power every year, and fly 12 months out of the year in
my sailplane; my currency and safety is something I take
responsibility for, not some part time instructor who sit's in a
Blanik every other weekend.

Brad

Brad wrote:
Speak up about the pilots that you have already identified as "an
accident waiting to happen", then look to yourself.
Why are we waiting?

I'd be somewhat careful about this comment. Ultra-conservative flag
pole sitters love to criticize pilots who go out and polish the rocks
and do things they consider "unsafe"

I would have to think those pilots, and some of them are CFIG's would
love to pull an intervention on a few of us. Question is, are they
really safer than me?

A few of us spent 2.5 hours in close proximity to rocks and trees
yesterday for a spectacular ridge/mountain flight. To my knowledge,
none of the local instructors were there, or have done anything like
that in years, if ever.

So, are you telling me they are going to tell me how to fly safe?

I get a BFR in power every year, and fly 12 months out of the year in
my sailplane; my currency and safety is something I take
responsibility for, not some part time instructor who sit's in a
Blanik every other weekend.

Brad


I agree. Burt in his post says "Go fly with a seasoned instructor for
an afternoon and get a "real" Flight Review." This statement is based
on the assumption that instructors (or at least those instructors who
are "seasoned") are better pilots than the rest of us. While that may
be true for Burt and some others, in the US instructors are just pilots
who have taken more FAA tests than the rest of us (and probably done a
lot less XC). Why would that make them better pilots?

I would bet that the typical instructor could learn more from the
typical XC pilot, than vice versa.