JSF Price Tag Jumps to $135 Million

" Sunny" wrote in news:xXhpn.14133$pv.11282
@news-server.bigpond.net.au:

[snip]

Here in Australia our stupid Govt. has not yet cancelled orders for the
thing.
As for artillery, you have to get the tubes and ammo close enough first,
to support the Infantry. (Ex Grunt with 36 years service.)
We should have bought F15s to replace our F111 :-)

As to artillery, things have changed recently. First round hits
from 30+ km for tube artillery and 75km for MLRS are not uncommon.
A single MLRS or truck mounted version thereof can cover an area
150km in diameter.
What JSF does is give you longer range strike capacity and H hour
ability to take out high value targets undetected until things are
supposed to go pear shaped.

IBM

"Ian B MacLure" wrote in message
.. .
" Sunny" wrote in news:xXhpn.14133$pv.11282
@news-server.bigpond.net.au:

[snip]

Here in Australia our stupid Govt. has not yet cancelled orders for the
thing.
As for artillery, you have to get the tubes and ammo close enough
first,
to support the Infantry. (Ex Grunt with 36 years service.)
We should have bought F15s to replace our F111 :-)

As to artillery, things have changed recently. First round hits
from 30+ km for tube artillery and 75km for MLRS are not uncommon.
A single MLRS or truck mounted version thereof can cover an area
150km in diameter.
What JSF does is give you longer range strike capacity and H hour
ability to take out high value targets undetected until things are
supposed to go pear shaped.

IBM

Close Air Support/Close Arty Support?
The old 8 inch were considered to be accurate, but we could never call the
first round closer than 1000 metres, even when we knew our position down
to 25 metres. Shudder to think what the "Close Support" first round
restrictions would be. As a Grunt I hope it would be within ear shot, for
the next correction request.

(Especially with many diverse Infantry Ops within your 150km area) :-)

" Sunny" wrote in
:


"Ian B MacLure" wrote in message
.. .
" Sunny" wrote in news:xXhpn.14133$pv.11282
@news-server.bigpond.net.au:

[snip]

Here in Australia our stupid Govt. has not yet cancelled orders for
the thing.
As for artillery, you have to get the tubes and ammo close enough
first,
to support the Infantry. (Ex Grunt with 36 years service.)
We should have bought F15s to replace our F111 :-)

As to artillery, things have changed recently. First round hits
from 30+ km for tube artillery and 75km for MLRS are not uncommon.
A single MLRS or truck mounted version thereof can cover an area
150km in diameter.
What JSF does is give you longer range strike capacity and H hour
ability to take out high value targets undetected until things are
supposed to go pear shaped.

IBM

Close Air Support/Close Arty Support?
The old 8 inch were considered to be accurate, but we could never call
the first round closer than 1000 metres, even when we knew our
position down to 25 metres. Shudder to think what the "Close Support"
first round restrictions would be. As a Grunt I hope it would be
within ear shot, for the next correction request.

(Especially with many diverse Infantry Ops within your 150km area)
:-)

It has been a long time since I have done it so I may be missing a
wrinkle, but DANGER CLOSE could be brought in to four probable errors of
friendly positions from 1000 metres for 155 and 620 metres for 105. If
you have at least 0.45 metres overhead cover, you can bring it onto the
positions if need be. Which PE you use depends on the relationship of the
line gun-target to the positions.
--
Andrew Chaplin
SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO
(If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.)

" Sunny" wrote in
:


"Ian B MacLure" wrote in message
.. .
" Sunny" wrote in news:xXhpn.14133$pv.11282
@news-server.bigpond.net.au:

[snip]

Here in Australia our stupid Govt. has not yet cancelled orders for
the thing.
As for artillery, you have to get the tubes and ammo close enough
first,
to support the Infantry. (Ex Grunt with 36 years service.)
We should have bought F15s to replace our F111 :-)

As to artillery, things have changed recently. First round hits
from 30+ km for tube artillery and 75km for MLRS are not uncommon.
A single MLRS or truck mounted version thereof can cover an area
150km in diameter.
What JSF does is give you longer range strike capacity and H hour
ability to take out high value targets undetected until things are
supposed to go pear shaped.

IBM

Close Air Support/Close Arty Support?
The old 8 inch were considered to be accurate, but we could never call
the first round closer than 1000 metres, even when we knew our

Yeah that would be peacetime. In A'stan NATO I think has 700m or
so but when push came to shove it was "Danger Close" and folks
were known to call in fire on their own position in extremsis.
US forces in A'stan routinely call in to 200m IIRC.

IBM

On Mar 20, 11:19*pm, Arved Sandstrom wrote:
wrote:
"Pressure is building from lawmakers on the Hill for
the Navy and Marines to buy more Hornets as the
current fleet gets older and the arrival date for the
JSF continues to slip."

See:

http://defensetech.org/2010/03/20/js...o-135-million/

How expensive is the JSF going to get?

It doesn't matter - the price tag is already well past anything that's
acceptable.

What's really ludicrous is the thought of using any planes this costly
as bomb trucks for ground support. Can you see putting a gold-plated
aircraft like this at risk of getting shot down by cheapo AAA? Just to
deliver some bombs in support of grunts? If it ever did happen, the
ground units would be using every artillery tube they had shooting SEAD
to protect these precious planes...begging the question of why the
artillery wouldn't just pound the main target in the first place.

AHS

I ask the question: why do you need stealth to attack a ground target
in the first place? Isn't there someone with enough foresight to
create an aircraft that would duplicate the A-10 in 21st century form?

Arved Sandstrom wrote in news:Hegpn.71557$PH1.6315
@edtnps82:

[snip]

What's really ludicrous is the thought of using any planes this costly
as bomb trucks for ground support. Can you see putting a gold-plated
aircraft like this at risk of getting shot down by cheapo AAA? Just to
deliver some bombs in support of grunts? If it ever did happen, the
ground units would be using every artillery tube they had shooting SEAD
to protect these precious planes...begging the question of why the
artillery wouldn't just pound the main target in the first place.

The days of streaking in at tree top level for a lay down attack
are probably over. JTACs can call in PGMs from 20000 ft with
pinpoint accuracy.

IBM

On Mar 22, 3:04*am, Ian B MacLure wrote:
Arved Sandstrom wrote in news:Hegpn.71557$PH1.6315
@edtnps82:

* * * * [snip]

What's really ludicrous is the thought of using any planes this costly
as bomb trucks for ground support. Can you see putting a gold-plated
aircraft like this at risk of getting shot down by cheapo AAA? Just to
deliver some bombs in support of grunts? If it ever did happen, the
ground units would be using every artillery tube they had shooting SEAD
to protect these precious planes...begging the question of why the
artillery wouldn't just pound the main target in the first place.

* * * * The days of streaking in at tree top level for a lay down attack
* * * * are probably over. JTACs can call in PGMs from 20000 ft with
* * * * pinpoint accuracy.

* * * * IBM

But with no aircraft to engage and UAVs and PGMs taking over for
"streaking in at tree top level" what's a hero-pilot to do back at the
O Club?

On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 02:48:36 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum
wrote:

On Mar 22, 3:04*am, Ian B MacLure wrote:
Arved Sandstrom wrote in news:Hegpn.71557$PH1.6315
@edtnps82:

* * * * [snip]

What's really ludicrous is the thought of using any planes this costly
as bomb trucks for ground support. Can you see putting a gold-plated
aircraft like this at risk of getting shot down by cheapo AAA? Just to
deliver some bombs in support of grunts? If it ever did happen, the
ground units would be using every artillery tube they had shooting SEAD
to protect these precious planes...begging the question of why the
artillery wouldn't just pound the main target in the first place.

* * * * The days of streaking in at tree top level for a lay down attack
* * * * are probably over. JTACs can call in PGMs from 20000 ft with
* * * * pinpoint accuracy.

* * * * IBM

But with no aircraft to engage and UAVs and PGMs taking over for
"streaking in at tree top level" what's a hero-pilot to do back at the
O Club?

Start with "This is no ****". Nothing changes.

Peter Skelton

Jack Linthicum wrote in
:

[snip]

But with no aircraft to engage and UAVs and PGMs taking over for
"streaking in at tree top level" what's a hero-pilot to do back at the
O Club?

Well somebody has to kick the door in. Thats where the JSF applies.
Kick the door in at H-Hour then come back the next day and let it
all hang out.

IBM

Ian B MacLure wrote:
Arved Sandstrom wrote in news:Hegpn.71557$PH1.6315
@edtnps82:

[snip]

What's really ludicrous is the thought of using any planes this costly
as bomb trucks for ground support. Can you see putting a gold-plated
aircraft like this at risk of getting shot down by cheapo AAA? Just to
deliver some bombs in support of grunts? If it ever did happen, the
ground units would be using every artillery tube they had shooting SEAD
to protect these precious planes...begging the question of why the
artillery wouldn't just pound the main target in the first place.

The days of streaking in at tree top level for a lay down attack
are probably over. JTACs can call in PGMs from 20000 ft with
pinpoint accuracy.

IBM

That may be true. But given that radar stealth doesn't mean radar
invisible, flying at 20,000+ feet doesn't exactly make you safe from
SAMs. And even if the F-35 is dropping some PGM glide-bomb from 50 nm
away he's still over some other patch of ground with SAMs and their radars.

And if that's all the plane is going to do is stand off at incredible
distances to launch ordnance, we can't have cheaper planes do the same
thing? Or just build a ****load of cruise missiles?

AHS