Stability augmentation promises to give you even less control

writes:

It has been around since at least '87 and has been implemented by about every
car maker out there world wide.

I did some research and it turns out to be more prevalent than I thought;
however, it is far from universal (but apparently some governments have
required or will require it). I don't pay much attention to cars and I haven't
driven a car in ages. I'm disappointed that gadgets like this are becoming
prevalent.

Mxsmanic wrote:
writes:

It has been around since at least '87 and has been implemented by about every
car maker out there world wide.

I did some research and it turns out to be more prevalent than I thought;
however, it is far from universal (but apparently some governments have
required or will require it). I don't pay much attention to cars and I haven't
driven a car in ages. I'm disappointed that gadgets like this are becoming
prevalent.

Once again, since 1987, so it isn't "are becoming prevalent", they have
been prevalent for over 20 years.

The only downside to such systems that I have seen is when a very old
driver first encounters them, as in very old drivers were taught not to
press the brakes as hard as you can in a panic stop yet the anti-skid
systems "want" you to do exactly that.

Even then it takes only once to adjust to the new reality (for me that was
more than 15 years ago) and since pilots train for other than normal
circumstances while drivers do not, I see no problem with such a system
in aircraft.


--
Jim Pennino

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writes:

The only downside to such systems that I have seen is when a very old
driver first encounters them, as in very old drivers were taught not to
press the brakes as hard as you can in a panic stop yet the anti-skid
systems "want" you to do exactly that.

There is a downside for newer drivers, too, in that those who have driven
mostly cars with ABS tend to constantly ram the brakes at the last minute,
confident that the ABS will bring them to a safe stop without a skid. The
problems here are that they don't know what to do if the ABS fails, and they
often don't understand that ABS does not reduce minimum stopping distance, so
they can still crash into the car in front of them even with the system
running if they are too careless about braking.

I drive all cars as if they don't have ABS. In other words, I make sure that I
can stop with completely normal braking (not impending-skid braking, although
I learned to do that, too).

Which reminds me (incidentally) that supposedly Southwest has ABS disabled on
all its aircraft, because some of their older models don't have it, and they
want a consistent experience for all pilots on all 737 models. I've heard the
same about autothrottle. It makes me wonder how much automation Southwest
aircraft actually use.

Even then it takes only once to adjust to the new reality (for me that was
more than 15 years ago) and since pilots train for other than normal
circumstances while drivers do not, I see no problem with such a system
in aircraft.

Hmm ... does this rapid adjustment to reality apply generally?

Mxsmanic wrote:
writes:

The only downside to such systems that I have seen is when a very old
driver first encounters them, as in very old drivers were taught not to
press the brakes as hard as you can in a panic stop yet the anti-skid
systems "want" you to do exactly that.

There is a downside for newer drivers, too, in that those who have driven
mostly cars with ABS

It is rather difficult to drive anything else these days unless you are
a collector of "classic" cars.

Even then it takes only once to adjust to the new reality (for me that was
more than 15 years ago) and since pilots train for other than normal
circumstances while drivers do not, I see no problem with such a system
in aircraft.

Hmm ... does this rapid adjustment to reality apply generally?

Well, I've had this discussion with two other people from the same basic
age group, so for a sample size of three, it applies 100%.


--
Jim Pennino

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writes:

It is rather difficult to drive anything else these days unless you are
a collector of "classic" cars.

I don't even remember if my last car had ABS (a few years ago). I think maybe
it did. But it didn't have any stability stuff.

Well, I've had this discussion with two other people from the same basic
age group, so for a sample size of three, it applies 100%.

In that case, the adjustment from a simulator to real life or vice versa
should be equally trivial.

Mxsmanic wrote:
writes:

It is rather difficult to drive anything else these days unless you are
a collector of "classic" cars.

I don't even remember if my last car had ABS (a few years ago). I think maybe
it did. But it didn't have any stability stuff.

ABS is part of the "stability stuff" designed to keep the car from winding
up sideways in a panic stop.

Well, I've had this discussion with two other people from the same basic
age group, so for a sample size of three, it applies 100%.

In that case, the adjustment from a simulator to real life or vice versa
should be equally trivial.

Non sequitur.

--
Jim Pennino

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writes:

ABS is part of the "stability stuff" designed to keep the car from winding
up sideways in a panic stop.

Yes, but ABS systems can be installed alone, without any other stability
stuff, and that's the way my car was ... I think. I'm pretty sure it had ABS
because there was a light on the dashboard for it, but it didn't have any
stability weirdness. As I recall, the light came on when ABS was engaged. Of
course, it never came on for me, because I never stopped recklessly enough for
it to activate.

Non sequitur.

I'm afraid not. You've admitted yourself that many differences are trivial and
can be easily adapted to, which is true. Moving from sim to airplane or back
is the same way. Only an exceptionally stupid student or pilot would not
notice and allow for differences between the two.

"Mxsmanic" wrote

they
often don't understand that ABS does not reduce minimum stopping distance,

THAT shows how you speak about thing you don't fully understand. ABS DOES
shorten stopping distances, as the system can more precisely modulate the
brakes than any human is able.

Morgans writes:

THAT shows how you speak about thing you don't fully understand. ABS DOES
shorten stopping distances, as the system can more precisely modulate the
brakes than any human is able.

The difference between that and what a skilled driver can achieve is small,
and in any case, if someone is depending on that slight decrement in stopping
distance, he's already making dangerous mistakes. In fact, if the ABS
activates at all, he is almost certainly making a mistake in his driving. An
ABS activation always means impending skid, and if you need an impending skid
to stop, you started braking way too late, or you were too close to whatever
you are trying not to hit.

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
Morgans writes:

THAT shows how you speak about thing you don't fully understand. ABS
DOES
shorten stopping distances, as the system can more precisely modulate the
brakes than any human is able.

The difference between that and what a skilled driver can achieve is
small,
and in any case, if someone is depending on that slight decrement in
stopping
distance, he's already making dangerous mistakes. In fact, if the ABS
activates at all, he is almost certainly making a mistake in his driving.
An
ABS activation always means impending skid, and if you need an impending
skid
to stop, you started braking way too late, or you were too close to
whatever
you are trying not to hit.

You are so damn stupid, you are a waste of oxygen.

If you ever had someone pull out in front of you while you were doing 55MPH,
and you had ABS, you had better be using it, or you gave up a hundred feet
of stopping distance.

I am glad for ever MPH my ABS lessen my speed when a person didn't see me
coming, and pulled out. Every extra MPH impact hurts, that much more. I
wasn't making dangerous mistakes, other than driving. That is one mistake
you will not make, because you are afraid of living.

But then, since you do almost no driving, and none now, you would not be in
real life to take your chances of applying ABS. Just like simming, instead
of flying.

Chicken****. Waste of air.

Everyone ignore this jerk, please ! ! ! The only way you can do that is to
block him out. I didn't, and like others, he ****es me off, and draws a
response. Block him, everyone, please ! ! !
--
Jim in NC