General Patton on Lieutenant Kerry

When pressed about what happened to his medals, Kerry now says
the medals he threw away were not his and that his are displayed in his
Senate office.

I'm not sure this is entirely true. What I heard said in the campaign
here in New Hampshire is that Kerry's citations (that is, the words,
not the metal and cloth) are on display in his office. They could have
been destroyed and replaced many times (so could his medals, for that
matter).

Kerry recently said (quoted in the Wall Street Journal) that he threw
away his own medals and those of two? other individuals who could not
be present that day (or perhaps who preferred not to be).

I don't know what the truth of this is. Perhaps he went back to the
pile afterward and retrieved his medals; I would hardly blame him for
that. How old was he, anyway? 25? Or perhaps he sent a clerk out to
replace them. The physical objects have no reality attached to them,
or very little. (I suppose that a Medal of Honor that was pinned on
you by the president has some specific merit as opposed to a
replacement.)

My own military honors were limited to the sharpshooter's medal, Good
Conduct medal, and National Defense medal, the latter two of which I
never bothered to collect (I was discharged in France). As a summer
soldier, I would never presume to critize a young man for what he did
with his medals. It was a time of guerrilla theater; Kerry had served
honorably, at risk to his life and limb, in a war that like so many of
us he later decided wasn't worth fighting.

As a Republican, I won't hold this episode against him. I am glad that
the Democrats have shaken off the flakes and opportunists and trial
lawyers and (seemingly) annointed a real leader.





all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

I am glad that
the Democrats have shaken off the flakes and opportunists and trial
lawyers and (seemingly) annointed a real leader.

Kerry is no more a leader than Jane Fonda and hopefully this will become
apparent over the next 10 months.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

"BUFDRVR" wrote

Kerry is no more a leader than Jane Fonda and hopefully this will become
apparent over the next 10 months.

It doesn't take me 10 minutes, but I concur.

Kerry is no more a leader than Jane Fonda and hopefully this will become
apparent over the next 10 months.

I'm as anxious as you are to see how the campaign plays out. But I do
see a difference: Fonda took her protest to Hanoi, while Kerry took
his to Washington. There is a world of difference in that.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 17:17:53 -0500, Cub Driver
wrote:


Kerry is no more a leader than Jane Fonda and hopefully this will become
apparent over the next 10 months.

I'm as anxious as you are to see how the campaign plays out. But I do
see a difference: Fonda took her protest to Hanoi, while Kerry took
his to Washington. There is a world of difference in that.

all the best -- Dan Ford

Gosh, I never realized I has something in common with the bitch. I
went to Hanoi instead of Washington as well.

As I pointed out, the difference is that Kerry held a commission in
the service of his country. Sort of the legal difference we might draw
between Benedict Arnold and Tokyo Rose. One was an officer and one was
a citizen. Seems to me that there is some level of traitorous behavior
found in all four.



Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

As I pointed out, the difference is that Kerry held a commission in
the service of his country. Sort of the legal difference we might draw
between Benedict Arnold and Tokyo Rose. One was an officer and one was
a citizen. Seems to me that there is some level of traitorous behavior
found in all four.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out during the campaign.
I don't have the bona fides to take a stand either way.

It's easy to understand how the vets in Kerry's campaign flocked to
him. I watched his New Hampshire victory speech on television. I
couldn't figure out what the guy in the ball cap was doing, standing
behind him to Kerry's left. Then I spotted what looked like an
American Legion cap, and I realized that they must be pushing vets
onstage.

I was thrilled, actually. It's going on forty years since I went to
Vietnam (as a civilian), and nearly that long since anyone has found
it worthwhile to exploit a Vietnam veteran for political gain. And
there were all the lefties (well, not the ones who were backing
*General* Clark) cheering! What a turnaround!

all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

"Cub Driver" wrote in message
...

When pressed about what happened to his medals, Kerry now says
the medals he threw away were not his and that his are displayed in his
Senate office.

I'm not sure this is entirely true. What I heard said in the campaign
here in New Hampshire is that Kerry's citations (that is, the words,
not the metal and cloth) are on display in his office. They could have
been destroyed and replaced many times (so could his medals, for that
matter).

A couple of other reports indicate he has (or had) the medals themselves on
display. Not that it matters much--he tossed the medals, and by doing so
turned his back on what they represented (though if he did get three PH's
without suffering *any* lost duty days, they may indeed have been sort of
meaningless in *his* case!); turning around and then putting even the
citations upon his wall is just being two-faced.


Kerry recently said (quoted in the Wall Street Journal) that he threw
away his own medals and those of two? other individuals who could not
be present that day (or perhaps who preferred not to be).

I don't know what the truth of this is. Perhaps he went back to the
pile afterward and retrieved his medals; I would hardly blame him for
that. How old was he, anyway? 25? Or perhaps he sent a clerk out to
replace them. The physical objects have no reality attached to them,
or very little.

He openly held them in contempt when he tossed them. I did not hear of that
gent who returned his French decorations to the French Embassy last year
going back and retrieving them later--he stood by his actions, be they good
or bad. Kerry wanted to have his cake and eat it, too--but now that cake is
likely to cause him a bit of indigestion.

(I suppose that a Medal of Honor that was pinned on
you by the president has some specific merit as opposed to a
replacement.)

My own military honors were limited to the sharpshooter's medal, Good
Conduct medal, and National Defense medal, the latter two of which I
never bothered to collect (I was discharged in France). As a summer
soldier, I would never presume to critize a young man for what he did
with his medals. It was a time of guerrilla theater; Kerry had served
honorably, at risk to his life and limb, in a war that like so many of
us he later decided wasn't worth fighting.

Then let him live with that choice to discard his medals and not shamelessly
now try to parade them for his own benefit. My brother earned decorations in
that same conflict as did Kerry; he repeatedly risked his life as a Dustoff
pilot and was shot down once, and when his CO mentioned he thought he could
get him a PH for wrenching his back during the crash he differed. He never
threw his medals, one of which included a "V" device, over any fence when he
returned. He was buried with them. Maybe Kerry could show enough backbone to
likewise follow the course he set for himself and *live* without the medals
he discarded in such a public manner.


As a Republican, I won't hold this episode against him. I am glad that
the Democrats have shaken off the flakes and opportunists and trial
lawyers and (seemingly) annointed a real leader.

In my book, a guy who discards his medals in a publicity stunt and then
later tries to parlay those same medals into improving his electability is
the supreme opportunist, regardless of which party he is affiliated with.

Brooks





all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 05:57:00 -0500, Cub Driver
wrote:


When pressed about what happened to his medals, Kerry now says
the medals he threw away were not his and that his are displayed in his
Senate office.

I'm not sure this is entirely true. What I heard said in the campaign
here in New Hampshire is that Kerry's citations (that is, the words,
not the metal and cloth) are on display in his office. They could have
been destroyed and replaced many times (so could his medals, for that
matter).

all the best -- Dan Ford

Only partially true, Dan. I don't know if they still do it, but at the
time period in question, the presentation medal was engraved on the
back with the name of the recipient. Kerry's SSM would have his name
on the back of the star. Mine has mine, as does my first and second
DFC. The third through fifth aren't engraved. The AM basic is. MSM and
AFCM aren't. It varies.

The higher the award (and the SSM is third), the more likely it was
engraved for presentation.

Whether his medals or someone else's, the issue is not the ownership,
but the oath--to protect and defend. To obey the lawful orders.
Enemies foreign and DOMESTIC. These are phrases of meaning and relate
to a commissioned officer, who never unless stripped of the rank is
anything less, has an obligation to the President he serves and the
warriors still in the fray. To undermine the support for half a
million fighting men still in harm's way by leading protests against
the duly elected government of his country--that's the sin.

The handful of vets who have been gatherered for orchestrated events
in the primary season are going to be overwhelmed by thousands and
thousands of vocal vets who kept the trust and honored their
commitments. Clinton could protest as a student and civilian during
that period and reasonably defend those acts. Kerry as a commissioned
officer could not.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

I don't know if they still do it, but at the
time period in question, the presentation medal was engraved on the
back with the name of the recipient.

They don't do that anymore, at least for any of the awards I've received.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

Whether his medals or someone else's, the issue is not the ownership,
but the oath--to protect and defend. To obey the lawful orders.
Enemies foreign and DOMESTIC. These are phrases of meaning and relate
to a commissioned officer, who never unless stripped of the rank is
anything less, has an obligation to the President he serves and the
warriors still in the fray. To undermine the support for half a
million fighting men still in harm's way by leading protests against
the duly elected government of his country--that's the sin.

"The President is merely the most important among a large number of public
servants. He should be supported or opposed exactly to the degree which is
warranted by his good conduct or bad conduct, his efficiency or inefficiency in
rendering loyal, able, and disinterested service to the Nation as a whole.
Therefore it is absolutely necessary that there should be full liberty to tell
the truth about his acts, and this means that it is exactly necessary to blame
him when he does wrong as to praise him when he does right. Any other attitude
in an American citizen is both base and servile.
To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to
stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
but is morally treasonable to the American public. Nothing but the truth should
be spoken about him or any one else. But it is even more important to tell the
truth, pleasant or unpleasant, about him than about any one else."
Theodore Roosevelt
Kansas City "Star"
May 7, 1918