"The New Soldier" by John Kerry et al

It's never been surprising how active duty types tend to support
presidents or presidential candidates who they perceive as being
friendly ($$) to the military or willing to use it at the drop of a hat.

Boy is your last name a contridiction. It never surprises me how many ignorant
political tools exist on this ng.

First off, if your assertion above were true, the active military would have
*loved* Clinton, since he, quite literally, used the military at the drop of a
hat. Not only did most active military not love Clinton, most detested the man
and couldn't wait for him to leave office. So your initial argument is a joke
(not surprising). Secondly, is it not possible for you you to not support Bush,
but not support Kerry either? I mean, that's not the case with me (I think Bush
is the right man for the job at the current time), but there are a growing
number of registered democrats who are concerned about Kerry, his ties to
lobbyists and his tremendously left charging voting record. Are these people
supporters of Bush ? No genius, they're not.

What I don't understand is how any vet, particularly those such as
yourself who served their country in combat, can have such a hard-on for
the person now running this country...and worse yet...or consider him a
patriot.

I'm not a vet (yet) cluebag. I support Bush, and plan on voting for him next
November because he's doing exactly what no Democrat since Trueman would do.
Put the USA first, not some pretend "global community". Every nation in the
world looks out for its own interests first, yet when the US does it, its a
horrible thing. Perhaps its our current world position, I don't know, but in
the wake of 9/11, we can't afford to worry about anyone ahead of ourselves.
Something Bush will do (and has done) and something none of the current
democrats in the race (short of *maybe* Clark, who's gone) is willing to do.

A true patriot would not constantly take money and services away from
people who wore a uniform for their country.

You're kidding right? Clinton slashed veterans benifits to the bone while
people like you stood by and applauded, now your concerned? Please....

I guess getting permanently disabled for your country isn't
reason enough to merit benefits from chickenhawk politicians who use our
blood to fight their little vendettas

By "little vendettas" I'm assuming you mean Iraq, but somehow I think you
supported Clinton when he crafted US national policy on Iraq to be regime
change. What, its OK to write down, but not do it? Hypocrit.

It no longer surprises me to see presidents doing this. Bush's daddy did
it to us as well.

Forget about your boy Billy Jeff?

I guess the definition of patriotism means being willing to kick-ass
anywhere in the world. And if one isn't willing to do it themselves,
they can just go hide out in the ANG or wherever...as long as they're
still willing and eager to let others fight.

At least he didn't run to Europe and protest the war from there. Seems you give
Billy Jeff a lot of latitude but Bush none. Gee, I wonder why that is? Stop
looking at parties and l think for yourself.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 18:49:25 GMT, Michael Wise wrote:

There are some 230,000 disbaled vets having to wait over 6 months just
to get their first VA doctor visit...

Hmmm... the first time I went to the VA I simply took my DD214 with me to
prove my veteran status, filled out the paperwork, and was in to see a
doctor within the hour.

-Jeff B.
yeff at erols dot com

Given George II's record on hazardous duty pay for troops in
Afghanistan and Iraq, I don't think that you want to go there....

Hmm, having received HDP for over a year of the last 3, can you explain what
Bush has done (or tried to do) in regards to HDP?


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

BUFDRVR wrote:
Scott MacEachern wrote:
Given George II's record on hazardous duty pay for troops in
Afghanistan and Iraq, I don't think that you want to go there....

Hmm, having received HDP for over a year of the last 3, can you explain
what Bush has done (or tried to do) in regards to HDP?

He's probably referring to the brouhaha over the increases in HDP and
FSA that Congress authorized in April '03 (retroactive to October '02),
which were set to expire in October '03 if they weren't made permanent
by Congress. Word was that Rumsfeld and other DOD brass were perfectly
happy to let them expire, as they hadn't been included in the FY03
budget and were really screwing things up, finance-wise. This got turned
into "BushCo wants to cut pay for personnel serving in Iraq and
Afghanistan" by many media outlets, including the Army Times.

Despite googling in multiple directions, I have been unable to determine
the resolution of this issue.

-Marc

--
Marc Reeve
actual email address after removal of 4s & spaces is
c4m4r4a4m4a4n a4t c4r4u4z4i4o d4o4t c4o4m

He's probably referring to the brouhaha over the increases in HDP and
FSA that Congress authorized in April '03 (retroactive to October '02),
which were set to expire in October '03 if they weren't made permanent
by Congress.

OK, I do remember that, but that was a congressional issue, not a presidential
one.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

BUFDRVR wrote:

He's probably referring to the brouhaha over the increases in HDP and
FSA that Congress authorized in April '03 (retroactive to October '02),
which were set to expire in October '03 if they weren't made permanent
by Congress.

OK, I do remember that, but that was a congressional issue, not a
presidential one.


You'd never have guessed that, though, based on the reporting in most
mainstream media outlets.

-Marc
--
Marc Reeve
actual email address after removal of 4s & spaces is
c4m4r4a4m4a4n a4t c4r4u4z4i4o d4o4t c4o4m

In article ,
Scott MacEachern wrote:

On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 16:08:30 -0500, "Kevin Brooks"
wrote:

He wants to be considered a Vietnam war hero, yet he condemned the
US soldiers, airmen, and sailors who fought there as being war criminals

Yup, he's said that some were war criminals. That wasn 't the case?

He's gone a bit further than that, depending on when and to whom he has
been speaking.

He's gone so far as to say that such behavior was widespread, that it
was a matter of policy, and that it was known to officers at all levels,
implying that it was condoned as a normal matter.

He's gone so far as to say that such behavior was widespread, that it
was a matter of policy, and that it was known to officers at all levels,
implying that it was condoned as a normal matter.

In The New Soldier, he specifically criticizes the trial of Lt Calley,
arguing that at My Lai 4 Calley was only doing what he was expected to
do.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

Cub Driver wrote:

He's gone so far as to say that such behavior was widespread, that it
was a matter of policy, and that it was known to officers at all levels,
implying that it was condoned as a normal matter.

In The New Soldier, he specifically criticizes the trial of Lt Calley,
arguing that at My Lai 4 Calley was only doing what he was expected to
do.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

It may come as a shock to the youngsters in the group, but many in the US
thought Calley's actions were perfectly respectable, and perhaps
commendable. You could drive through the countryside and see banners reading
"Free Calley!".

This was not a time of calm, reasoned, and polite debate.

Bob McKellar

Cub Driver wrote:

:He's gone so far as to say that such behavior was widespread, that it
:was a matter of policy, and that it was known to officers at all levels,
:implying that it was condoned as a normal matter.
:
:In The New Soldier, he specifically criticizes the trial of Lt Calley,
:arguing that at My Lai 4 Calley was only doing what he was expected to
:do.

And he's got a valid point. The investigation there, if investigation
there was to be, should have started with the commanding general of
Americal Division and worked its way down, not started with some poor
lieutenant and failed to work its way up.

--
"I thought dying for your country was the worst thing that could
happen to you. I think killing for your country can be a lot
worse. Because that's the memory that haunts."
-- Senator Bob Kerrey