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Please ignore Mx



 
 
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  #1  
Old April 8th 12, 03:44 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Morgans[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 66
Default Please ignore Mx


Please, everyone, if you don't know the history of this group, let me
tell you... Don't ever respond to MX. He was the primary reason this
formerly vital and

active group (around 200 posts per day) has been all but abandoned. He is
death to any group he touches.

-- Jim in NC

Ads
  #2  
Old April 8th 12, 12:01 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Mxsmanic
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,169
Default Please ignore Mx

Morgans writes:

Please, everyone, if you don't know the history of this group, let me
tell you... Don't ever respond to MX. He was the primary reason this
formerly vital and

active group (around 200 posts per day) has been all but abandoned. He is
death to any group he touches.


The only post I see in this group today is this one. Will you be joining my
fan club, given that you are more interested in posting about me than about
aviation?

And I haven't had anything to do with the decline of this group. Like most
Usenet groups, it has been damaged by spam and a general lack of interest. The
most recent flame war didn't involve me at all, but I did observe it in
disappointed amazement.
  #3  
Old April 11th 12, 03:46 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Dan[_15_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 38
Default Please ignore Mx

On Sun, 08 Apr 2012 13:01:32 +0200, Mxsmanic wrote:

Morgans writes:

Please, everyone, if you don't know the history of this group, let me
tell you... Don't ever respond to MX. He was the primary reason this
formerly vital and

active group (around 200 posts per day) has been all but abandoned. He is
death to any group he touches.


The only post I see in this group today is this one. Will you be joining my
fan club, given that you are more interested in posting about me than about
aviation?

And I haven't had anything to do with the decline of this group. Like most
Usenet groups, it has been damaged by spam and a general lack of interest. The
most recent flame war didn't involve me at all, but I did observe it in
disappointed amazement.


Hey I just want to give you a blow job.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
  #4  
Old April 11th 12, 10:30 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Mxsmanic
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,169
Default Please ignore Mx

Dan writes:

Hey I just want to give you a blow job.


Thank you for the offer, but I am not interested in homosexuality or sex in
general (if that is what you are referring to).

I am interested in aviation, though.
  #5  
Old May 29th 12, 01:44 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
a[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 562
Default Please ignore Mx

I am one of the 'used to be" regulars on this newgroup. Mx provided some entertainment and interesting threads, but its death was driven by others engaged in ****ing contests. Examine the history for all of the evidence you might need.

I check in, as Jim in NC does, from time to time, but would suggest a DNR is a suitable final post.

The old group had some real benefits -- I am. I think, a better pilot for having read some postings, but the worthwhile comments were swamped by nonsense posts, until they all went away.

I am among those who do NOT lay the blame on MX.




On Monday, May 28, 2012 8:02:46 PM UTC-4, Nomen Nescio wrote:
"Morgans" wrote:


Please, everyone, if you don't know the history of this group, let me
tell you... Don't ever respond to MX. He was the primary reason this
formerly vital and

active group (around 200 posts per day) has been all but abandoned. He is
death to any group he touches.

-- Jim in NC


Sounds like nonsense to me. A few years ago I recall claims in this
group being made that were not mathematically sound. When challenged,
(and verifiable proof to the contrary was posted), accusations and
attacks of "MXing" came out, instead of sound reasoning as to why
someones unexplained viewpoint must be accepted.

I don't know MX, but he seems to be surrounded by fools who expect
blind acceptance of opinions (expressed as fact), as opposed to using
good logic or sound math.

I actually left the newsgroup because of what seemed to be foolish
regulars who use mob rule to force unsubstantiated opinions down ones
throat. I left because of those surrounding and attacking MXmaniac
and anyone who tried to discuss topics logically.

I just stepped into the newsgroup today for the first time in years,
and find this gem of a post.

Guess I'll have to give a few years more.


  #6  
Old May 29th 12, 02:15 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Bob Moore
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 291
Default Please ignore Mx

Nomen Nescio wrote
Sounds like nonsense to me..............


Same here. I spent much of my Navy and Airline career
evaluating pilots for employment or retention. I found
Mx to use far better logic than many of the amateur pilots
in this group. But...he was not a REAL pilot. My argument
that not even FAA certificated Ground Instructors are required
to be pilots fell on deaf ears.
Real pilots certainly did not like to be out-argued.

Bob Moore
  #7  
Old May 29th 12, 10:55 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Mxsmanic
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,169
Default Please ignore Mx

Nomen Nescio writes:

I don't know MX, but he seems to be surrounded by fools who expect
blind acceptance of opinions (expressed as fact), as opposed to using
good logic or sound math.


Most people adopt their opinions from others, rather than develop their own
opinions based on facts they research or encounter themselves. It's easier to
simply copy someone else's opinions wholesale, and it requires less
intelligence.

Unfortunately, adopting someone else's opinions makes a person highly
vulnerable to manipulation, and impairs the ability to make sound decisions.
It often goes hand in hand with allowing emotion to control one's behavior,
rather than reason.

A person who copies his opinions cannot defend them, since he has no idea how
they were arrived at. And if those opinions are long-standing, anything that
threatens them can be uncomfortable and destabilizing, such that the person
who holds them may react emotionally and irrationally to any request, implied
or direct, to defend such opinions.

I am good at recognizing opinions that have been copied from those of other
people, and I ask people holding such opinions to defend them. Of course, they
cannot, and so a considerable debate ensues, which they invariably lose.
Ideally, this would incite them to start developing their own opinions, but
few people actually progress in that way.
  #8  
Old May 29th 12, 03:29 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Dudley Henriques[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 55
Default Please ignore Mx

On Monday, May 28, 2012 9:15:40 PM UTC-4, Bob Moore wrote:
Nomen Nescio wrote
Sounds like nonsense to me..............


Same here. I spent much of my Navy and Airline career
evaluating pilots for employment or retention. I found
Mx to use far better logic than many of the amateur pilots
in this group. But...he was not a REAL pilot. My argument
that not even FAA certificated Ground Instructors are required
to be pilots fell on deaf ears.
Real pilots certainly did not like to be out-argued.

Bob Moore


True, but it helps a great deal if those pilots are right. :-)
Dudley Henriques
  #9  
Old May 29th 12, 03:57 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Dudley Henriques[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 55
Default Please ignore Mx

On Tuesday, May 29, 2012 5:55:31 AM UTC-4, Mxsmanic wrote:
Nomen Nescio writes:

I don't know MX, but he seems to be surrounded by fools who expect
blind acceptance of opinions (expressed as fact), as opposed to using
good logic or sound math.


Most people adopt their opinions from others, rather than develop their own
opinions based on facts they research or encounter themselves. It's easier to
simply copy someone else's opinions wholesale, and it requires less
intelligence.

Unfortunately, adopting someone else's opinions makes a person highly
vulnerable to manipulation, and impairs the ability to make sound decisions.
It often goes hand in hand with allowing emotion to control one's behavior,
rather than reason.

A person who copies his opinions cannot defend them, since he has no idea how
they were arrived at. And if those opinions are long-standing, anything that
threatens them can be uncomfortable and destabilizing, such that the person
who holds them may react emotionally and irrationally to any request, implied
or direct, to defend such opinions.

I am good at recognizing opinions that have been copied from those of other
people, and I ask people holding such opinions to defend them. Of course, they
cannot, and so a considerable debate ensues, which they invariably lose.
Ideally, this would incite them to start developing their own opinions, but
few people actually progress in that way.


It's strange I know, but I'm one of those "pilots" who when everything was considered, really never had any serious problems with you. We had our disagreements to be sure, but I've never seen you as this horrible "threat" to Usenet some others have adopted.
In fact, I believe I've commented from time to time that I felt the posts attacking you far outnumbered any posts from you that I personally might have found objectionable.

I think if I had to pinpoint a single thing that I would have advised you to do on a forum where actual pilots are posting, it would have been for you to have adopted a slightly more "question" persona as opposed to a "statement" persona. Most pilots are reasonable. Many have either vast military experience or have expended tremendous amounts of resources in experience and education.
Moore is right. Pilots don't react well to being 'equalized" by people who don't fly.

It's that simple really. You want to make a statement, you have to pay your dues first, THEN make the statement. You want to ASK a question, ASK! Most pilots welcome the opportunity to show the world what they know. On the flip side of that, it helps a LOT if pilots actually know what they are talking about. Some do, some don't, but the fact that you don't fly is still the elephant in the room. There's a right way to disagree with someone and a wrong way to disagree. You might be right, and you might win the battle, but with other pilots watching you and how you're conducting all this "correcting", you probably aren't going to win the war!
Discretion is a virtue. Respect can't be demanded. It has to be earned.
Dudley Henriques

  #10  
Old May 29th 12, 05:38 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Mxsmanic
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,169
Default Please ignore Mx

Dudley Henriques writes:

It's strange I know, but I'm one of those "pilots" who when
everything was considered, really never had any serious problems
with you.


You are more civil than most, but you have shown considerable irritation at
times. Your irritation is tempered by the fact that you often actually know
what you are talking about. Others are not so lucky.

We had our disagreements to be sure, but I've never seen you
as this horrible "threat" to Usenet some others have adopted.


When you know you are right, you don't feel threatened by others with
different opinions. And of course, if they are also right, you have no
disagreement to begin with. Since I often echo concepts and principles that
have long been accepted as correct and valid by the best minds in aviation, it
goes without saying that other people (pilots or not) who are also aware of
these concepts and principles will have no quarrel with me.

People who are misinformed and have issues with insecurity will argue with me.
They are more interested in preserving their egos than they are in actually
being right. Smart people correct themselves when they discover that they are
wrong. Stupid people stubbornly persist in being wrong, even when they know
they are wrong. Sometimes this leads to bad things, like airplane crashes.

In fact, I believe I've commented from time to time that I felt
the posts attacking you far outnumbered any posts from you that
I personally might have found objectionable.


That is indisputably true. Kids who are arguing out of emotion rather than
reason become increasingly aggressive and voluble as their position erodes.

I think if I had to pinpoint a single thing that I would have advised
you to do on a forum where actual pilots are posting, it would have
been for you to have adopted a slightly more "question" persona as
opposed to a "statement" persona.


Sorry, but I don't give anyone deference by default. If they are wrong,
they're wrong, no matter who they are. I ask questions when I want to know
things, but when I see that someone else is misinformed, I provide a
correction. Nothing will prevent me from doing the latter. If Chesley
Sullenberger himself enters this group and says something that is manifestly
incorrect, I'll correct him. But something tells me that he'd never make that
kind of mistake in the first place.

Most pilots are reasonable.


The reasonable ones are not the ones who attack anyone who disagrees with
them.

Many have either vast military experience or have expended tremendous
amounts of resources in experience and education.


Military experience is relevant only to military discussions. Airplanes fly
the same way in the military as they do in civilian life, whatever Maverick
and Iceman might believe.

Often people become so fixated on me that they don't pay attention to the
discussion. Once they become convinced that they must "win," they will ignore
all reason and logic in their increasingly strident posts. But if I'm right,
I'll stay right no matter what they say, so the time they spend attacking me
is time wasted.

Moore is right. Pilots don't react well to being 'equalized" by people
who don't fly.


Then they need to grow up. There's no magic in being a pilot.

If a brain surgeon tells me that he can operate without establishing a sterile
field around the incision, I'll tell him he's wrong, because he is. It doesn't
matter how many surgeries he's done or how many millions of years of
experience he has. Wrong is wrong, and often being right or wrong is easy to
objectively establish for anyone willing to look things up.

I've had pilots argue with me in direct contradiction to FAA regulations, for
example, even when I quote the regulations to them. What they didn't know in
many cases was the depth of my research. On one occasion, I had just finished
talking to the FAA in Washington, and had obtained the absolute final word on
the interpretation of a regulation, and yet still the pilot argued with me. If
only he knew how stupid he looked.

It's that simple really. You want to make a statement, you have to pay
your dues first, THEN make the statement.


Sorry, I don't do the hazing thing. If I'm right, I'm right, dues or no dues.
If I'm wrong, well, paying dues isn't going to make me right.

That sort of thing is for little boys, who are wired to compete and form
simplistic hierarchical command and control structures. But it has nothing to
do with being right or wrong.

You want to ASK a question, ASK!


I do. And if someone says something that's obviously wrong, I correct, too.

Most pilots welcome the opportunity to show the world what they know.


They even welcome the opportunity to parade their ignorance, in many cases.
Fortunately, it's harmless in this group, but a lot of them end up in NTSB
reports. Mother Nature cannot be bullied or intimidated.

On the flip side of that, it helps a LOT if pilots actually know what
they are talking about. Some do, some don't, but the fact that you don't
fly is still the elephant in the room.


That's their problem. They just need to grow up. Of course, if they were grown
up and mature, they probably wouldn't be afflicted by their ignorance, since
they would have corrected their mistakes long ago.

There's a right way to disagree with someone and a wrong way to disagree.


Not for me. The difference exists only for kids, and I'm not a kid.

You might be right, and you might win the battle, but with other pilots
watching you and how you're conducting all this "correcting", you probably
aren't going to win the war!


It's not a war. In most cases, it's a march towards aviation safety. Pilots
who are wrong die a lot.

Respect can't be demanded. It has to be earned.


I agree ... but that rather conflicts with your other suggestions, doesn't it?
 




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