Another stall spin

On Sep 12, 5:06*am, BruceGreeff wrote:

As a thought - consider what might have happened with Bruno if he had
immediately centralised the controls without changing flap first.

Motivated by this thread, I tested all this on my last flight.

What happens in my ASW20B -- if I provoke a scenario identical to
what's seen in Bruno's video, then apply normal spin recovery while
staying in #4 flap -- is that the "snap roll" stops a little past 90
degrees, the nose drops about 20 and I am able to re-establish a
thermal turn without ever exceeding 65 kts. It isn't exactly the
stuff of horror films.

A fully developed steady state spin does reasonably call for shifting
flaps to #2 (-4 deg) to avoid over stressing things on recovery. But
recovery from an incipient spin can be made (and imo should be made)
with normal spin recovery inputs.

-Evan Ludeman / T8

At 15:54 12 September 2012, Evan Ludeman wrote:
On Sep 12, 5:06=A0am, BruceGreeff wrote:

As a thought - consider what might have happened with Bruno if he had
immediately centralised the controls without changing flap first.

Motivated by this thread, I tested all this on my last flight.

What happens in my ASW20B -- if I provoke a scenario identical to
what's seen in Bruno's video, then apply normal spin recovery while
staying in #4 flap -- is that the "snap roll" stops a little past 90
degrees, the nose drops about 20 and I am able to re-establish a
thermal turn without ever exceeding 65 kts. It isn't exactly the
stuff of horror films.

A fully developed steady state spin does reasonably call for shifting
flaps to #2 (-4 deg) to avoid over stressing things on recovery. But
recovery from an incipient spin can be made (and imo should be made)
with normal spin recovery inputs.

-Evan Ludeman / T8

From the ASW 20 flight manual:

1. Recovery from spin can be easier achieved, if the
flaps are set in negative position (handle
forward).

On Sep 12, 3:15*pm, Don Johnstone wrote:
At 15:54 12 September 2012, Evan Ludeman wrote:









On Sep 12, 5:06=A0am, BruceGreeff *wrote:

As a thought - consider what might have happened with Bruno if he had
immediately centralised the controls without changing flap first.

Motivated by this thread, I tested all this on my last flight.

What happens in my ASW20B -- if I provoke a scenario identical to
what's seen in Bruno's video, then apply normal spin recovery while
staying in #4 flap -- is that the "snap *roll" stops a little past 90
degrees, the nose drops about 20 and I am able to re-establish a
thermal turn without ever exceeding 65 kts. *It isn't exactly the
stuff of horror films.

A fully developed steady state spin does reasonably call for shifting
flaps to #2 (-4 deg) to avoid over stressing things on recovery. *But
recovery from an incipient spin can be made (and imo should be made)
with normal spin recovery inputs.

-Evan Ludeman / T8

From the ASW 20 flight manual:

1. Recovery from spin can be easier achieved, if the
flaps are set in negative position (handle
forward).


and that's a great thing to keep in mind in case you ever need it. I
don't have the manual handy, but I dispute the term "easier".
Opposite rudder, ailerons neutral, stick forward enough to break the
stall is "easy". And if it is done as quickly as it should be
(reflexively, as soon as you feel the break) this event is over before
there's any drama whatsoever. I hate the thought that guys might
construe that they *need* to fumble for the flap handle to make a
recovery. In any case, guys need to investigate their own ships and
discover what works for them.

T8

At 20:07 12 September 2012, Evan Ludeman wrote:
On Sep 12, 3:15=A0pm, Don Johnstone wrote:
At 15:54 12 September 2012, Evan Ludeman wrote:









On Sep 12, 5:06=3DA0am, BruceGreeff =A0wrote:

As a thought - consider what might have happened with Bruno if he
had
immediately centralised the controls without changing flap first.

Motivated by this thread, I tested all this on my last flight.

What happens in my ASW20B -- if I provoke a scenario identical to
what's seen in Bruno's video, then apply normal spin recovery while
staying in #4 flap -- is that the "snap =A0roll" stops a little past
90
degrees, the nose drops about 20 and I am able to re-establish a
thermal turn without ever exceeding 65 kts. =A0It isn't exactly the
stuff of horror films.

A fully developed steady state spin does reasonably call for shifting
flaps to #2 (-4 deg) to avoid over stressing things on recovery.
=A0But
recovery from an incipient spin can be made (and imo should be made)
with normal spin recovery inputs.

-Evan Ludeman / T8

From the ASW 20 flight manual:

1. Recovery from spin can be easier achieved, if the
flaps are set in negative position (handle
forward).


and that's a great thing to keep in mind in case you ever need it. I
don't have the manual handy, but I dispute the term "easier".
Opposite rudder, ailerons neutral, stick forward enough to break the
stall is "easy". And if it is done as quickly as it should be
(reflexively, as soon as you feel the break) this event is over before
there's any drama whatsoever. I hate the thought that guys might
construe that they *need* to fumble for the flap handle to make a
recovery. In any case, guys need to investigate their own ships and
discover what works for them.

T8

When I flew a flapped glider my hand was resting on the flap lever for most
of the time when I was flying, in common with many others, so moving both
levers forward would not have involved any fumbling. Moving the flap lever
forward instantly reduces the angle of attack, and inter alia, drag, which
can be no bad thing