WGC Uvalde: US Team... What Happened????

The US team has talented pilots no different than other countries. Our 2012 Worlds team consists great people and great pilots. But their (our) potential is not even close to fully realized for World competition because we play checkers (US rules) and the rest of the world plays poker (FAI).

I have had some more thoughts when thinking about why we in the US are so isolated and, at the same time and unsurprisingly, so far behind the rest of the world in World Level Competition. I don't see any major safety statistical differences that justify the US rules as safer. So let's take safety off the board for a moment and discuss objective changes that glare out.

1) Do to our SSA insistence for a totally different set of US competition rules, we isolate US contest pilots from having any opportunity to race with outsiders in the US. We have therefore become a very closed group. Instead of attracting other top pilots to come fly in the US (many amazing soaring sites), we do the opposite and actually repel foreign pilots. Flying in the US for top level foreign pilots is a waste of time. Why, different rules but that is not all.

In addition, foreign pilots are only allowed to fly in major US contests as guests. Look at 2012 15 meter nationals for example. Kinda weird really. Duck-hawk, duck-hawk...blah blah blah. Great glider but the guy who actually won this event was almost ignored. That's bugs me. I'm sure it bothered some others. In general is this the way to welcome foreign pilots? Don't we won't more pilots, foreign and domestic?

In my opinion, if we worked to better welcome foreign pilots to US events and scored everyone attending major US contest equally, we might just begin to attract some more top pilots to practice with. To learn from. We should simply pick the top American (2nd in this case) as the US champion, but honor all the pilots. No big deal, no problem. We can then gauge ourselves more often, etc. We should really be bending over backwards to have the opportunity to fly against top international pilots. Instead we close it off (treat them as alien contestants). This makes no sense to me.

2) The US pilots only race area tasks (almost exclusively) with massive circles (20, 30 miles). Foreign racing pilots, countries, fly, primarily, assigned tasks under FAI. Assigned tasks are the main task at 15/18/Open world championships and FAI. In my opinion (and that opinion is shared by most if not all of the international pilots I know now) large circles are major obstacles to becoming competitive in international competition. No need for any strategy in large radius area tasks. It's more like flying for OLC points then racing. Just follow clouds and if you are lucky enough, you win. Foreign pilots simply don't like our tasking. Especially the top ones.. It stunts our talented pilots growth. It repels other international talent. It's boring.

I know a number of foreign pilots now who, if the US ran the same rules and tasking, would have come to the US to train early this summer. But, they didn't because it was of little value to them (checkers).

If I recall correctly, no US nationals had a single assigned task this year (2012). For certain, the vast majority of US tasks were large area task.. With that (checkers vs. poker) how can a US pilot (15/18/Open) possibly expect success in the European game? You know, that other sport...FAI? Those rules they use internationally and at Worlds? Area tasks with huge circles 20-30 miles again is no different than OLC. Hell, cylinders of that size would*cover 1/5th of some European countries!

If we don't fly task similar to what our Worlds pilots will fly at the World Championship, team flying practice will not help them. In addition, US team selection is strongly influenced by large area task results. Then, after qualification and training under US rules, they are asked to suddenly metamorphosis into FAI champions for a few weeks during the World Championship? Then they don't do well, at all, even at their home venue of Uvalde we are shocked? They had no chance. It was actually their first time (most of them) experiencing an entirely different sport. FAI soaring rules racing! I wish it was possible to have it all. Noir own "safer rules" and world champions. But the fact is that this sport is really hard and the big boys are really, really good! They, along with the rest of the world, fly FAI. It is nearly impossible for our pilots overcome the disadvantage they endure via disregarding FAI entirely in favor of our own, special SSA rules.

It all revolves around our philosophy on rules here in the USA. They may be great for "some"...but we are never going to be competitive at a World championship unless a pilot is extraordinary and lucky squared. I contend that we should never have expect to be competitive in Uvalde. Good results were upside at best.

Everything we do here in the USA is wrong if World Championships (or even being remotely competitive) is our goal. Period. And as some have mentioned, it SIMPLY IS NOT AN SSA GOAL.

I contend we scrap our SSA rules and adopt FAI next year. At some level. Give pilots the choice. We can save the vast time spent on recreating the sport for ourselves via our special rules committee and focus on more important items. Again, safety is not measurably different in the US and Europe.. Why do we have an entirely different set of rules again?

Come on Sean,
You completely miss many of the great points that John made about how important it is to keep contests fun. They are not all about selection for the world's!!! You didn't acknowledge his arguments about how the US rules help to make contests more appealing to barely enough contestants to have contests at all. Were any of these ideas valid?

I also agree that if USA contests started becoming consistent land-out fests that you would see participation drop. Fine, so we aren't grooming winners for the world's but we are at least still racing. You are arguing for changing the way we try to swim here and in reality we are just trying to stay afloat!

In my mind the biggest difference is that due to the USA being so large, it takes these kinds of rules changes to attract enough glider pilots to attend any particular contest. How many of the Europeans drive 1000,2000, even 3000km to attend a contest? You see that all the time here in the USA. Again, were any of John's points valid?

Thanks Dave for working on the flight analysis. Can't wait to start reviewing!

Bruno - B4

On Sep 19, 8:28*pm, wrote:
Come on Sean,
You completely miss many of the great points that John made about how important it is to keep contests fun. *They are not all about selection for the world's!!! *You didn't acknowledge his arguments about how the US rules help to make contests more appealing to barely enough contestants to have contests at all. *Were any of these ideas valid?

I also agree that if USA contests started becoming consistent land-out fests that you would see participation drop. *Fine, so we aren't grooming winners for the world's but we are at least still racing. *You are arguing for changing the way we try to swim here and in reality we are just trying to stay afloat!

In my mind the biggest difference is that due to the USA being so large, it takes these kinds of rules changes to attract enough glider pilots to attend any particular contest. *How many of the Europeans drive 1000,2000, even 3000km to attend a contest? You see that all the time here in the USA. *Again, were any of John's points valid?

Thanks Dave for working on the flight analysis. *Can't wait to start reviewing!

Bruno - B4

Right on Sean!

Agree with Sean.
And have big problem with Johns thinking.
It is no fun to fly MAT with one or no TP !
It is no fun to fly TAT with huge circles.
It is not safe to be forced to land at the airport ,
after good finish.
It is no fun to fly without the water.(like would be no fun to fly without ruder)
It is no fun if task is changed 3 times (including after first launch)
It is no fun if task was called in the air by one of competitors.
Those some of our " Better rules" John.
Ryszard Krolikowski

On Wednesday, 19 September 2012 20:28:19 UTC-6, wrote:
Come on Sean,

You completely miss many of the great points that John made about how important it is to keep contests fun. They are not all about selection for the world's!!! You didn't acknowledge his arguments about how the US rules help to make contests more appealing to barely enough contestants to have contests at all. Were any of these ideas valid?



I also agree that if USA contests started becoming consistent land-out fests that you would see participation drop. Fine, so we aren't grooming winners for the world's but we are at least still racing. You are arguing for changing the way we try to swim here and in reality we are just trying to stay afloat!



In my mind the biggest difference is that due to the USA being so large, it takes these kinds of rules changes to attract enough glider pilots to attend any particular contest. How many of the Europeans drive 1000,2000, even 3000km to attend a contest? You see that all the time here in the USA. Again, were any of John's points valid?



Thanks Dave for working on the flight analysis. Can't wait to start reviewing!



Bruno - B4

From the 2012 Rulebooks

USA FAI Competition-Class Competition Rulebook.

1.0 GENERAL
1.1 The purpose of a National FAI Class Soaring Championship is to determine a National FAI Class Champion and to measure the performance of all entrants. Performance in Nationals will be used to provide a basis for pilots to qualify for entry into future soaring Championships and to select pilots for the U.S. Team in International Competition.

U.S. National Sport-Class Competition Rules
February 27, 2012
1.0 GENERAL
1.1 â€* The purpose of a National Sport Class Soaring Championship is to determine a National Sport Class Champion and to measure the performance of all entrants. Performance in Nationals will be used to provide a basis for pilots to qualify for entry into future soaring Championships and to select pilots for the U.S. Team in International Club Class Competition. Handicapping will be applied to minimize score differences due to performance differences between sailplanes.

U.S. Regional FAI-Class Competition Rules
February 27, 2012
1.0 GENERAL
1.1 â€* The purpose of a Regional FAI Soaring Championship is to determine a Regional Champion and to measure the performance of all
entrants within each class. Performance in Regionals will be used to provide a basis for pilots to qualify for entry into future soaring
Championships.

U.S. Regional Sport-Class Competition Rules
February 27, 2012
1.0 GENERAL
1.1 â€* The purpose of a Regional Sport Class Soaring Championship is to determine a Regional Sport Class Champion, to measure the
performance of all entrants, and to provide an entry level for pilots new to competitive sailplane racing to learn the skills and procedures
used in competition. Performance in Regionals will be used to provide a basis for pilots to qualify for entry into future soaring
Championships. Handicapping will be applied to minimize score differences due to performance differences between sailplanes.

I agree with many points made by folks but lets not forget that the secondary Objective, as defined by the rules committee, of Nationals competitions is to select members for the world team.

I fully understand the complex nature of holding, organizing and delivering contests but lets keep in mind that they must fulfill the objective(s) set forth by the SSA and FAI. If the objective continues for Nationals continues to be to select a world team then the CD's and CM's must deliver on that. The challenge is of course that if you have a checkbook, time off, soaring/contest experience you can participate. There is no more hierarchy to qualify.

Yes John makes excellent points, they must be tempered with the stated objectives of the rules committee.

Ron Gleason

Bruno (nice to hear from you),

I hear the points John made clearly. I understand the vision. I simply don't accept them as fact.

Where is this data supporting claims of “mass land outs” if a contest is run under FAI rules vs. US Rules? Where is the data that shows higher levels of appeal for US rule contests vs. FAI? To who? What choice do “they” have? Safety doesn’t appear to improve under US rules although I respect that in many ways that is the intent.

Bottom line: the whole "World" seems to be doing as well as the US in attendance and safety, and better in many cases in World Championship or FAI contest performance.

Yet, the US insists on going down a completely different contest rules program. I am starting to wonder how this different path ever began frankly. It’s a bummer. Here we are with clear change resistance issues even though the conversation (me) is simply suggesting that we do the same as the rest of the world and flying FAI. A suggestion that we adopt for the US what appears to be the "gold standard" around the world. It appears we are saying the rest of the world is "wrong" and we are "right."

I honestly don't think this change effort would be a big of a deal (the way we swim, drowning, etc). Although I fear many who are “emotionally invested” in the US rules would cry doom and gloom if a real debate about adopting FAI rules was started. Changing to FAI would be fairly simple IMO. It would aslo have some clear benefits.

The rest of the world flies FAI rules. They appear to be pretty darn healthy when compared to US attendance. Pilots all over the world appear to be very happy with FAI soaring competition.
I think we somehow assume alot about the effectiveness of the US rules on attendance. And clearly we as a country provide no weight to the Worlds competitiveness issue.

I don’t mean to be calling someone’s baby ugly here. But I will say that we are hindering baby's potential. Baby's growth. Baby is behind. I think being the only country in the world that supports a completely different set of rules than the rest of the world is a mistake. I think being the only country in the world to support its own A-Z sports class and blocks Club class is a big mistake. 15/18/Standard are the classes with attendance issues. Club level ships are a very dense area of US contest participation. They complain about being forced to compete level with ASG29 and Arcus. Giving them their own class would, IMO, improve their enthusiasm and attendance.

We should allow Club class (FAI) and then call Sports the high end ships until we figure out the new classes. This is my recommendation.

I hate having another different point of view here, but I do. I believe it is good thing to have these conversations and let others weigh in.

F2

On Wednesday, September 19, 2012 10:28:19 PM UTC-4, wrote:
Come on Sean,

You completely miss many of the great points that John made about how important it is to keep contests fun. They are not all about selection for the world's!!! You didn't acknowledge his arguments about how the US rules help to make contests more appealing to barely enough contestants to have contests at all. Were any of these ideas valid?



I also agree that if USA contests started becoming consistent land-out fests that you would see participation drop. Fine, so we aren't grooming winners for the world's but we are at least still racing. You are arguing for changing the way we try to swim here and in reality we are just trying to stay afloat!



In my mind the biggest difference is that due to the USA being so large, it takes these kinds of rules changes to attract enough glider pilots to attend any particular contest. How many of the Europeans drive 1000,2000, even 3000km to attend a contest? You see that all the time here in the USA. Again, were any of John's points valid?



Thanks Dave for working on the flight analysis. Can't wait to start reviewing!



Bruno - B4

I hear the points John made clearly. *I understand the vision. *I simply don't accept them as fact.

Where is this data supporting claims of “mass land outs” if a contest is run under FAI rules vs. US Rules? *Where is the data that shows higher levels of appeal for US rule contests vs. FAI? *To who? *What choice do “they” have? Safety doesn’t appear to improve under US rules although I respect that in many ways that is the intent.

Bottom line: *the whole "World" seems to be doing as well as the US in attendance and safety, and better in many cases in World Championship or FAI contest performance.

Yet, the US insists on going down a completely different contest rules program. *I am starting to wonder how this different path ever began frankly. *It’s a bummer. *Here we are with clear change resistance issues even though the conversation (me) is simply suggesting that we do the same as the rest of the world and flying FAI. *A suggestion that we adopt for the US what appears to be the "gold standard" around the world. *It appears we are saying the rest of the world is "wrong" and we are "right."

I honestly don't think this change effort would be a big of a deal (the way we swim, drowning, etc). *Although I fear many who are “emotionally invested” in the US rules would cry doom and gloom if a real debate about adopting FAI rules was started. *Changing to FAI would be fairly simple IMO. *It would aslo have some clear benefits.

The rest of the world flies FAI rules. *They appear to be pretty darn healthy when compared to US attendance. *Pilots all over the world appear to be very happy with FAI soaring competition.
I think we somehow assume alot about the effectiveness of the US rules on attendance. *And clearly we as a country provide no weight to the Worlds competitiveness issue.

I don’t mean to be calling someone’s baby ugly here. *But I will say that we are hindering baby's potential. *Baby's growth. *Baby is behind. *I think being the only country in the world that supports a completely different set of rules than the rest of the world is a mistake. *I think being the only country in the world to support its own A-Z sports class and blocks Club class is a big mistake. *15/18/Standard are the classes with attendance issues. *Club level ships are a very dense area of US contest participation. *They complain about being forced to compete level with ASG29 and Arcus. *Giving them their own class would, IMO, improve their enthusiasm and attendance.

We should allow Club class (FAI) and then call Sports the high end ships until we figure out the new classes. *This is my recommendation.

I hate having another different point of view here, but I do. *I believe it is good thing to have these conversations and let others weigh in.


Put in a bid for Ionia super-regional to be flown under IGC rules with
club class. If 50 pilots show up, your case will be made. Heck, put in
a bid to run a continental championship under IGC rules. Ditto.

John Cochrane

Originally Posted by

Come on Sean,
You completely miss many of the great points that John made about how important it is to keep contests fun. They are not all about selection for the world's!!! You didn't acknowledge his arguments about how the US rules help to make contests more appealing to barely enough contestants to have contests at all. Were any of these ideas valid?

I also agree that if USA contests started becoming consistent land-out fests that you would see participation drop. Fine, so we aren't grooming winners for the world's but we are at least still racing. You are arguing for changing the way we try to swim here and in reality we are just trying to stay afloat!

In my mind the biggest difference is that due to the USA being so large, it takes these kinds of rules changes to attract enough glider pilots to attend any particular contest. How many of the Europeans drive 1000,2000, even 3000km to attend a contest? You see that all the time here in the USA. Again, were any of John's points valid?

Thanks Dave for working on the flight analysis. Can't wait to start reviewing!

Bruno - B4

Good points Bruno

As an outsider looking in it's gotta be said that lots of racing gliders makes you good at racing gliders. The Europeans get a lot more oppourtunities to race against other top pilots than do most Americans. In the UK you have to qualify for their nationals by doing well in regional contests.

The best New Zealand pilots of recent years are the ones who have been or are currently living overseas and competing regularly at the highest level.

I can't see that FAI vs SSA rules are at the heart of the problem

Colin

ps: I'd be interested to know more about the South African contest scene and how some of their pilots feel in this regard

Hi Colin
We also have very little exposure to high level contests, and going to Europe to compete is expensive. In my opinion, there are more competition opportunities in the US than we have in SA, as we only have two regional (three since last year) and our one multi-class nationals. And we have the same 25 or so guys going to all of these to race.
I wouldnt knock your team pilots, as they can hold their own, but not being used to flying as a team, definitely puts them at a disadvantage. Team flying is not something that you can just switch on, it takes years to learn to do, and there are a multitude of aspects that need to be adressed, both in flying, but also in knowing your partner.
Regards
Oscar Goudriaan

On Sep 19, 3:45*pm, "Sean F (F2)" wrote:
The US team has talented pilots no different than other countries. *Our 2012 Worlds team consists great people and great pilots. *But their (our) potential is not even close to fully realized for World competition because we play checkers (US rules) and the rest of the world plays poker (FAI).

I have had some more thoughts when thinking about why we in the US are so isolated and, at the same time and unsurprisingly, so far behind the rest of the world in World Level Competition. *I don't see any major safety statistical differences that justify the US rules as safer. *So let's take safety off the board for a moment and discuss objective changes that glare out.

1) *Do to our SSA insistence for a totally different set of US competition rules, we isolate US contest pilots from having any opportunity to race with outsiders in the US. *We have therefore become a very closed group. *Instead of attracting other top pilots to come fly in the US (many amazing soaring sites), we do the opposite and actually repel foreign pilots. *Flying in the US for top level foreign pilots is a waste of time. *Why, different rules but that is not all.

In addition, foreign pilots are only allowed to fly in major US contests as guests. *Look at 2012 15 meter nationals for example. *Kinda weird really. *Duck-hawk, duck-hawk...blah blah blah. *Great glider but the guy who actually won this event was almost ignored. *That's bugs me. *I'm sure it bothered some others. *In general is this the way to welcome foreign pilots? *Don't we won't more pilots, foreign and domestic?

In my opinion, if we worked to better welcome foreign pilots to US events and scored everyone attending major US contest equally, we might just begin to attract some more top pilots to practice with. * To learn from. *We should simply pick the top American (2nd in this case) as the US champion, but honor all the pilots. *No big deal, no problem. *We can then gauge ourselves more often, etc. *We should really be bending over backwards to have the opportunity to fly against top international pilots. *Instead we close it off (treat them as alien contestants). *This makes no sense to me.

2) The US pilots only race area tasks (almost exclusively) with massive circles (20, 30 miles). *Foreign racing pilots, countries, fly, primarily, assigned tasks under FAI. * Assigned tasks are the main task at 15/18/Open world championships and FAI. *In my opinion (and that opinion is shared by most if not all of the international pilots I know now) large circles are major obstacles to becoming competitive in international competition. *No need for any strategy in large radius area tasks. *It's more like flying for OLC points then racing. *Just follow clouds and if you are lucky enough, you win. *Foreign pilots simply don't like our tasking. *Especially the top ones. *It stunts our talented pilots growth. *It repels other international talent. *It's boring.

I know a number of foreign pilots now who, if the US ran the same rules and tasking, would have come to the US to train early this summer. *But, they didn't because it was of little value to them (checkers).

If I recall correctly, no US nationals had a single assigned task this year (2012). *For certain, the vast majority of US tasks were large area task.. *With that (checkers vs. poker) how can a US pilot (15/18/Open) possibly expect success in the European game? *You know, that other sport...FAI? *Those rules they use internationally and at Worlds? *Area tasks with huge circles 20-30 miles again is no different than OLC. *Hell, cylinders of that size would*cover 1/5th of some European countries!

If we don't fly task similar to what our Worlds pilots will fly at the World Championship, team flying practice will not help them. *In addition, US team selection is strongly influenced by large area task results. *Then, after qualification and training under US rules, they are asked to suddenly metamorphosis into FAI champions for a few weeks during the World Championship? *Then they don't do well, at all, even at their home venue of Uvalde we are shocked? *They had no chance. *It was actually their first time (most of them) experiencing an entirely different sport. *FAI soaring rules racing! I wish it was possible to have it all. Noir own "safer rules" and world champions. *But the fact is that this sport is really hard and the big boys are really, really good! *They, along with the rest of the world, fly FAI. *It is nearly impossible for our pilots overcome the disadvantage they endure via disregarding FAI entirely in favor of our own, special SSA rules.

It all revolves around our philosophy on rules here in the USA. *They may be great for "some"...but we are never going to be competitive at a World championship unless a pilot is extraordinary and lucky squared. *I contend that we should never have expect to be competitive in Uvalde. *Good results were upside at best.

Everything we do here in the USA is wrong if World Championships (or even being remotely competitive) is our goal. *Period. *And as some have mentioned, it SIMPLY IS NOT AN SSA GOAL.

I contend we scrap our SSA rules and adopt FAI next year. *At some level. *Give pilots the choice. *We can save the vast time spent on recreating the sport for ourselves via our special rules committee and focus on more important items. *Again, safety is not measurably different in the US and Europe. *Why do we have an entirely different set of rules again?



Save the current SSA rules for Sports Class where they belong. Fly
with the rest of the world in the FAI classes, even if you have to
handicap them to attract participation. Everyone gets a choice and a
chance that way.