P-51's in movie "Empire of the Sun"

Well, since it's the Navy, and they couldn'b be like abyone else, it's
one of those "That Depends" things again.

For example, the Amphibian models of the PBY and PBM flying boats were
the PBY-5A and the PBM-5A.

But the F4U-1 Corsair with the bulged canopy was an F4U-1A.
(And the version with 4 cannons was an F4U-1D).

But weren't the letters A, B, C. D, assigned in alphabetical order, to
successive mods?

An uprated engine was usually signified by an 'F' tacked on, but not
always.

Even if the preceding mod was an A or a B? Are you saying the Navy
jumped over the C, D, and E? What if the preceding mod was up to G,
or H; did they go back to F?

But it wasn't always consistant. An F6F-5E was a Night Fighter,

Was that not because the preceding mod was the F6F-5D?

and an PBM-3E was an ASW Patrol Bomber.

And did that follow the PBM-3D?

Thanks. vince norris

i saw a film that they tried to make the F4 Phantom a russian fighter! that
said, the chances of getting a REAL russian plane for the film would be
pretty slim!
In 633 sqdn they used me108's because they couldnt get a 109!
In the film Memphis Belle, they had a Bf109 with a Merlin engine (same
engine as in the spitfire and the P51), so they could have a mostly genuine
enemy plane (well apart from the engine).
Of course there werent any originally engined 109's available.
In the original Pearl Harbour they took the two rudders off a B25 and put a
cardboard fin in the middle, to make it look like something else (what, i
dont know!!).
I think we could go on and on, with this!
he he!
regards, Mark.
"Stephen Harding" wrote in message
...
Cub Driver wrote:

Great movie, by the way--Empire of the Sun, I mean. But did you notice
that the entire tail section of the "Zero" turned? Probably it was an
AT-6 with a pointy tail cone pasted on.

This makes me wonder just what sort of "modifications" are
typically done by Hollywood to create actual flying aircraft
no longer in existence, or just not available to fly.

Obviously, the main "trick" is simply paint the aircraft in
the correct national markings. Thus a P-51 becomes an Me 109,
an AT-6 a Zero (seems the most common role for a Texan in a
movie). Some F-86s can become "Migs", and I vaguely recall
a C-47 becoming a G4M Betty at one time.

JN-4 "Jennies" served as German and British/US fighters in the
WWI movies of the 20's and 30's. Just a splash of paint and
a roundel made it a Sopwith Camel, or a black cross and it was
a "Fokker".

I believe in "Memphis Belle" a B-17G was converted to an F by
actual removal of the nose turret. Addition of a tail cone
to make an AT-6 into a Zero seems more than necessary, but
some directors are detail focused.

Then of course there are "faux warbird" props. Even during
WWII when the real thing might have been available, you often
see some dummied up aircraft. I think John Wayne in "Flying
Tigers" had some plywood P-40s with propellers that would
lazily spin trying to imitate a squadron cranking up for an
intercept. I think the BoB TV movie "Piece of Cake" used
some dummied up Spits for ground scenes as well. Didn't some
of them spin props too?

Of course with the increasing power of F/X in movies, you can
now film formations worth of Me 262s attacking B-24s or
whatever. The need for the actual warbird is pretty much gone.


SMH

"M. H. Greaves" wrote in message
...
i saw a film that they tried to make the F4 Phantom a russian fighter!
that
said, the chances of getting a REAL russian plane for the film would be
pretty slim!
In 633 sqdn they used me108's because they couldnt get a 109!

Same with 'Von Ryan's Express' - rocket firing 108's! Also didn't Donald
Pleasence get shot after James Gardner crashed theirs in 'The Great Escape'?

In the film Memphis Belle, they had a Bf109 with a Merlin engine (same
engine as in the spitfire and the P51), so they could have a mostly
genuine
enemy plane (well apart from the engine).
Of course there werent any originally engined 109's available.

Just the one actually, 'Black 6' at Duxford - (has since crashed into a
field at the hands of the then CinC Strike!)

In the original Pearl Harbour they took the two rudders off a B25 and put
a
cardboard fin in the middle, to make it look like something else (what, i
dont know!!).
I think we could go on and on, with this!
he he!
regards, Mark.
"Stephen Harding" wrote in message
...
Cub Driver wrote:

Great movie, by the way--Empire of the Sun, I mean. But did you notice
that the entire tail section of the "Zero" turned? Probably it was an
AT-6 with a pointy tail cone pasted on.

This makes me wonder just what sort of "modifications" are
typically done by Hollywood to create actual flying aircraft
no longer in existence, or just not available to fly.

Obviously, the main "trick" is simply paint the aircraft in
the correct national markings. Thus a P-51 becomes an Me 109,
an AT-6 a Zero (seems the most common role for a Texan in a
movie). Some F-86s can become "Migs", and I vaguely recall
a C-47 becoming a G4M Betty at one time.

JN-4 "Jennies" served as German and British/US fighters in the
WWI movies of the 20's and 30's. Just a splash of paint and
a roundel made it a Sopwith Camel, or a black cross and it was
a "Fokker".

I believe in "Memphis Belle" a B-17G was converted to an F by
actual removal of the nose turret. Addition of a tail cone
to make an AT-6 into a Zero seems more than necessary, but
some directors are detail focused.

Then of course there are "faux warbird" props. Even during
WWII when the real thing might have been available, you often
see some dummied up aircraft. I think John Wayne in "Flying
Tigers" had some plywood P-40s with propellers that would
lazily spin trying to imitate a squadron cranking up for an
intercept. I think the BoB TV movie "Piece of Cake" used
some dummied up Spits for ground scenes as well. Didn't some
of them spin props too?

Of course with the increasing power of F/X in movies, you can
now film formations worth of Me 262s attacking B-24s or
whatever. The need for the actual warbird is pretty much gone.


SMH

Jim Doyle twisted the electrons to say:
"M. H. Greaves" wrote in message
...
In the film Memphis Belle, they had a Bf109 with a Merlin engine (same
engine as in the spitfire and the P51), so they could have a mostly
genuine enemy plane (well apart from the engine).
Of course there werent any originally engined 109's available.
Just the one actually, 'Black 6' at Duxford - (has since crashed into a
field at the hands of the then CinC Strike!)

IIRC, aren't there effectively 3 "types" of 109 around?

[1] Genuine 109s - non flying since 'Black 6' got bent. :-(
[2] 'Mules' that have been fitted with a Daimler-Benz DB-605.
[3] 'Mules' using an engine other than the DB-605.
--
These opinions might not even be mine ...
Let alone connected with my employer ...

"Alistair Gunn" wrote in message
. ..
Jim Doyle twisted the electrons to say:
"M. H. Greaves" wrote in message
...
In the film Memphis Belle, they had a Bf109 with a Merlin engine (same
engine as in the spitfire and the P51), so they could have a mostly
genuine enemy plane (well apart from the engine).
Of course there werent any originally engined 109's available.
Just the one actually, 'Black 6' at Duxford - (has since crashed into a
field at the hands of the then CinC Strike!)

IIRC, aren't there effectively 3 "types" of 109 around?

[1] Genuine 109s - non flying since 'Black 6' got bent. :-(
[2] 'Mules' that have been fitted with a Daimler-Benz DB-605.
[3] 'Mules' using an engine other than the DB-605.

The Original Me-109 was designed for the Junkers Jumo 210
and the protoype flew with a RR Kestrel engine as I recall.

Quite a few of the surviving '109s' are actually Hispano HA-1112
aircraft that were built post war with either Hispano-Suiza or
RR Merlin engines.

Keith

Quite a few of the surviving '109s' are actually Hispano HA-1112
aircraft that were built post war with either Hispano-Suiza or
RR Merlin engines.

Keith



The one used in Memphis Belle was a Spanish built example with a Merlin
engine flown by Mark Hanna of the Old Flying Machine Company.

Unfortunatley Mark lost his life in this very aircraft a few years back.

Lee Hutch

To my knowledge there is the merlin engined Bf109 at duxford, and an
originally engined one titled "GUSTAV", it was captured in the desert and
restored later it is the only one with its original daimler benz engine
still in good nick and still powering the aircraft, last i heard of it was
when it was being carted off down under. Its probably back home by now.
These are the only ones i know of in UK, but i believe there is at least one
owned and flown privately in the USA.
"Alistair Gunn" wrote in message
. ..
Jim Doyle twisted the electrons to say:
"M. H. Greaves" wrote in message
...
In the film Memphis Belle, they had a Bf109 with a Merlin engine (same
engine as in the spitfire and the P51), so they could have a mostly
genuine enemy plane (well apart from the engine).
Of course there werent any originally engined 109's available.
Just the one actually, 'Black 6' at Duxford - (has since crashed into a
field at the hands of the then CinC Strike!)

IIRC, aren't there effectively 3 "types" of 109 around?

[1] Genuine 109s - non flying since 'Black 6' got bent. :-(
[2] 'Mules' that have been fitted with a Daimler-Benz DB-605.
[3] 'Mules' using an engine other than the DB-605.
--
These opinions might not even be mine ...
Let alone connected with my employer ...

To my knowledge there is the merlin engined Bf109 at duxford, and an
originally engined one titled "GUSTAV", it was captured in the desert and
restored later it is the only one with its original daimler benz engine
still in good nick and still powering the aircraft, last i heard of it was
when it was being carted off down under. Its probably back home by now.

G-USTAV is otherwise known as Black 6. It is a genuine Bf 109 G-6. It is
owned by the RAF museum I believe and since they had several other examples
they allowed this one to be rebuilt to flying condition and flown for a few
years. On its last flight before being grounded for museum display the
aircraft was crashed and heavily damaged. It has since been rebuilt for static
display. I don't believe that it was ever shipped Down Under.

There have been two or three Spanish built Buchons rebuilt with Daimler
engines and flown in Germany. Most have been ground looped and damaged and
then retired after being rebuilt. I believe that there are not now any
original German built Bf 109s flying though several capable of flight and
several more being restored.

John Dupre'

In article , Jim Doyle
writes

i saw a film that they tried to make the F4 Phantom a russian fighter!
that
said, the chances of getting a REAL russian plane for the film would be
pretty slim!

"Ice Station Zero" - a flight of four (?) MiG-21 models turns into a
real Phantom as it overflies the submarine.

Also didn't Donald
Pleasence get shot after James Gardner crashed theirs in 'The Great Escape'?

I thought that was a Bucker Bu181 Bestmann (or a derivative), but I
might be wrong.

"Sahara" (original version) - is the 'Messerschmitt' a Mustang?
"Where Eagles Dare" - the Bell 47 playing, I guess, a Flettner Fl282?
"A Bridge Too Far" - AT-6s playing Thunderbolts and Typhoons?

--
Graeme

Currently Reading: "The Day We Bombed Switzerland" - Granholm

said, the chances of getting a REAL russian plane for the film would be
pretty slim!

"Ice Station Zero" - a flight of four (?) MiG-21 models turns into a
real Phantom as it overflies the submarine.

I have a photo from 1981, holding that MiG 21 model (there was actually only
one - the flight of four was only a flight of one, copied several times). Its
quite large, perhaps 30" long or a bit more. The original model is in a
storeroom today in the San Diego Aerospace Museum.



Also didn't Donald
Pleasence get shot after James Gardner crashed theirs in 'The Great Escape'?

I thought that was a Bucker Bu181 Bestmann (or a derivative), but I
might be wrong.

As Captain Tenneal would say, "Well, you're wrong." (Sticking my neck out
here) I think its a 108. Dern few Bestmanns around. Anyone know for sure?

--
Graeme

Currently Reading: "The Day We Bombed Switzerland" - Granholm


Where the heck have you been, Graeme?

yfGordon
====(A+C====
USN SAR

Its always better to lose AN engine, than THE engine.