FLARM for SAR

http://www.flarm.com/support/SAR_Text.pdf


Interesting that the FLARM-recorded igc file also records the position of nearby targets. Will this feature be present on the USA PowerFLARM when the igc recording function is activated?

Yes, it will.

FLARM/PowerFLARM records only a subset of the targets received, due to memory constraints.
We do try to record a target when it was first and last seen, though. Both
of which is important for range analysis and SAR.

We do not plan to release the SAR software at this point.

Best
--Gerhard

We do not plan to release the SAR software at this point.

I guess nobody expects you to release the software that you have written. It would be great though if the data format of these SAR relevant information was not kept as a secret. The new FLARM specification suggests that even all the PDA software solutions are supposed to record these information and that even without knowledge of what is actually getting recorded.

Once again, your software is your property and nobody suggests that you give that up for free, but the information in the IGC files of each individual pilot should be open and readable by the pilot if he chooses to do so. This would be the basis to provide such a service directly in platforms like the OLC or SkyLines.

Turbo

Once again, your software is your property and nobody suggests that you give that up for free, but the information in the IGC files of each individual pilot should be open and readable by the pilot if he chooses to do so. This would be the basis to provide such a service directly in platforms like the OLC or SkyLines.

Tobias,

we're actually discussing this internally.

Best
--Gerhard

Hi Gerhard,

that is very good news and I hope you take the right decision. Please let us know about it once you've decided.

Turbo

It seems that FLARM ultimately took the wrong decision...

Two weeks ago Andrea Schlapbach from FLARM contacted me via email to discuss how we would want to use these data sentences. In the initial email he already clearly stated that "they had no interest in publishing the data format" and would only "share the format with a few interested and suited partners". "Suited partners" in their definition are those that are able to keep the format a secret.

In my answer I explained that XCSoar and SkyLines are both open source applications and that keeping a secret in open source code isn't really possible. I also asked what their intentions are for keeping the format a secret, but unfortunately that question was never answered. My second email answering some follow-up questions and asking the same thing again was never answered either.

I feel very sorry that FLARM has become such a closed-up proprietary company. I don't see any reason for keeping the data format a secret and I certainly hope that they reconsider this non-sense at some point. The only two reasons I can see for this is: a) they want to use the data commercially at some point or b) they are logging data that contains private data that shouldn't be logged in the first place. If they would really care about these SAR reasons they would simply open up their format so that any public party could use them...

I feel very sorry that FLARM has become such a closed-up proprietary
company.

I agree.
But I've also experienced not many manufacturers feel different about
being open. They feel the market for their hardware it too small to be
open about their products.

There are some notable exceptions: Borgelt, Funkwerk, Becker,
Garrecht, Butterfly avionics.

On Thursday, November 15, 2012 6:20:36 AM UTC-5, Tobias Bieniek wrote:
It seems that FLARM ultimately took the wrong decision...

According to whom ?

All you experts out the
Quick, list 5 bad things that could happen quickly
if the RF or PFLAL formats were public.
Hint: it has already been discussed ad nausea...

Did you misstype between bad and good Dave?

On Thursday, November 15, 2012 6:48:55 AM UTC-8, Dave Nadler wrote:
On Thursday, November 15, 2012 6:20:36 AM UTC-5, Tobias Bieniek wrote:

It seems that FLARM ultimately took the wrong decision...



According to whom ?



All you experts out the

Quick, list 5 bad things that could happen quickly

if the RF or PFLAL formats were public.

Hint: it has already been discussed ad nausea...

It's not a matter of "if" but of "when" they will become public. Whether FLARM wants it or not.

Much bigger minds have tried to keep much bigger formats veiled, unsuccessfully.

David

At 11:20 15 November 2012, Tobias Bieniek wrote:
It seems that FLARM ultimately took the wrong decision...

Two weeks ago Andrea Schlapbach from FLARM contacted me via email to
discus=
s how we would want to use these data sentences. In the initial email he
al=
ready clearly stated that "they had no interest in publishing the data
form=
at" and would only "share the format with a few interested and suited
partn=
ers". "Suited partners" in their definition are those that are able to
keep=
the format a secret.

In my answer I explained that XCSoar and SkyLines are both open source
appl=
ications and that keeping a secret in open source code isn't really
possibl=
e. I also asked what their intentions are for keeping the format a
secret,
=
but unfortunately that question was never answered. My second email
answeri=
ng some follow-up questions and asking the same thing again was never
answe=
red either.

I feel very sorry that FLARM has become such a closed-up proprietary
compan=
y. I don't see any reason for keeping the data format a secret and I
certai=
nly hope that they reconsider this non-sense at some point. The only two
re=
asons I can see for this is: a) they want to use the data commercially at
s=
ome point or b) they are logging data that contains private data that
shoul=
dn't be logged in the first place. If they would really care about these
SA=
R reasons they would simply open up their format so that any public party
c=
ould use them...

Surely all you need is a qualified software engineer to read the output,
which you may have noticed is broadcast, and compare the raw output to what
is displayed in many of the magic apps that use it. It's called reverse
engineering, if you want to be posh or hacking if you don't. You can then
work out what the data sentences consist of and decde them. I spent many
years happily working doing just that some years ago, not with FLARM I
hasten to add.