When are thermals not circular and do thermal helpers assume thatthey are?

On Monday, July 29, 2013 10:00:11 AM UTC-6, son_of_flubber wrote:
I'm starting to think that the textbook circular thermal is primarily a flatland phenomena.

Think plumes.
http://www.rcsoaring.com/docs/thermals_2006.pdf

On Monday, July 29, 2013 12:00:11 PM UTC-4, son_of_flubber wrote:
I'm starting to think that the textbook circular thermal is primarily a flatland phenomena.

Perhaps but since we usually fly in a circle anyways in a thermal, does it matter all that much? I've love to thermal in a trapezoid but I think it would make it really hard for those in the same thermal.

Andrej, Tim Taylor accurately describes the conditions we have in the Western United States and why a good thermal assistant is an asset. I still soldier on with WinPilot because it's TA is simply the best. I have a copy of SYM but choose not to fly with it. I would dearly like to dump my PDA and fly with a more modern and supported system.

All good points and certainly something we can consider and most importantly - test. Thanks.

Andrej Kolar
--
glider pilots use
http://www.Naviter.com

On Sunday, August 4, 2013 12:50:57 AM UTC+2, wrote:
Andrej, Tim Taylor accurately describes the conditions we have in the Western United States and why a good thermal assistant is an asset. I still soldier on with WinPilot because it's TA is simply the best. I have a copy of SYM but choose not to fly with it. I would dearly like to dump my PDA and fly with a more modern and supported system.

On Monday, 29 July 2013 17:00:11 UTC+1, son_of_flubber wrote:
I'm starting to think that the textbook circular thermal is primarily a flatland phenomena.

The thread title asks whether thermal assistants assume thermals are round. I would like to know whether thermal assistants assume you are flying a round circle - specifically, when I have made an adjustment to my circle, does the thermal assistant realise I have done so, or does making an adjustment completely invalidate the advice of the thermal assistant until I have completed the next round circle? Does anyone know?

Is there anyone who can give a specific explanation of what each thermal assistant does?

Currently, I am using an LX9000. I like that I get the benefit of a visual thermal assistant without losing the display of any other info, and I think the visual assistant does a good job - I generally find the best and worst lift just where the assistant shows them. I often also zoom the map right in to see my track line with lift colours. I cannot make sense of the audible bleeps. With the Winpilot assistant which I use in another glider, I do not like losing all other info while the assistant is active - whereas with SeeYou Mobile (not talking about the brand new version which obviously I have not yet seen in action) I like being able to retain my navboxes as well as the assistant. I find the Winpilot trend graph pretty but not useful - I decide when to leave a thermal based on the digital averager (and the picture ahead!).

I would like to know whether thermal assistants assume you are flying a round circle

I can obviously only speak for Naviter/SeeYou Mobile/Oudie. We do not assume that you are flying round circles. We remember the direction in which the thermal was strongest in your last turn and base our predictions on that.

I often also zoom the map right in to see my track line with lift colours..

The new Thermal Assistant in SeeYou Mobile will zoom in automatically, display the track of the last thermal with a thicker line and color-code it according to thermal strength. Even if you come to an area where you have circled before it will be very clear which is your last thermal's track.

I cannot make sense of the audible bleeps.

We also calculate your rate of turn. And we remember the direction in which the climb was strongest in your previous circle. 4 seconds before you will reach the direction of the peak of the previous circle (by default) we will give you a sound warning if the thresholds of how uneven the thermal may be are exceeded. If you are circling in a nicely centered thermal where the needle doesn't move much we will not bother to disturb you with the thermal assistant beeps.

All of the above only works well if you have at least pressure altitude input (vario input is even better).

Hope this explains how the TA works in SeeYou Mobile,
Andrej Kolar
--
glider pilots use
http://www.Naviter.com

On Sunday, August 4, 2013 12:52:26 AM UTC+2, waremark wrote:
On Monday, 29 July 2013 17:00:11 UTC+1, son_of_flubber wrote:

I'm starting to think that the textbook circular thermal is primarily a flatland phenomena.



The thread title asks whether thermal assistants assume thermals are round. I would like to know whether thermal assistants assume you are flying a round circle - specifically, when I have made an adjustment to my circle, does the thermal assistant realise I have done so, or does making an adjustment completely invalidate the advice of the thermal assistant until I have completed the next round circle? Does anyone know?



Is there anyone who can give a specific explanation of what each thermal assistant does?



Currently, I am using an LX9000. I like that I get the benefit of a visual thermal assistant without losing the display of any other info, and I think the visual assistant does a good job - I generally find the best and worst lift just where the assistant shows them. I often also zoom the map right in to see my track line with lift colours. I cannot make sense of the audible bleeps. With the Winpilot assistant which I use in another glider, I do not like losing all other info while the assistant is active - whereas with SeeYou Mobile (not talking about the brand new version which obviously I have not yet seen in action) I like being able to retain my navboxes as well as the assistant. I find the Winpilot trend graph pretty but not useful - I decide when to leave a thermal based on the digital averager (and the picture ahead!).

Flew with updated SeeYou Mobile Thermal Assistant today - definitely better than the old one - reserving judgement on usefulness!

Mike

I bit the bullet and purchased an Oudie 2. New system worked great and was very visible in somewhat darkened skies due to overcast. Thermal assistant seemed to be much improved with version 4.50.003. So long WinPilot/PDA. Thanks to Craggy Aero for their prompt service.