Butterfly

On Saturday, August 31, 2013 12:11:44 PM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
On Saturday, August 31, 2013 7:14:55 AM UTC-7, wrote:

On Wednesday, August 28, 2013 1:39:50 PM UTC-4, John Carlyle wrote:



On Tuesday, August 27, 2013 10:02:49 PM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:







I have one and I like it. But I have not used an LX7000 so I cannot compare. It has a zillion more functions and features than the CAI 302 that it replaced in my panel, and has a very nice user interface. It does a bunch of things buut its unique features seem to be:















* Nearly instantaneous wind calculation (inertially derived)















* Inertially derived Vertical Airmass Movement (VAM) which in theory eliminates horizontal gust errors















* Artificial Horizon Reference















The VAM requires some interpretation, but I think supplies some new information that I didn't have before. There are some other varios on the market claiming to use inertial sensing, but it is less clear what they actually do with it, if anything.















What do you think the VAM is telling you that you don't already know?















-John, Q3







This is a good point. I considered buying the Butterfly variometer to replace the 302 but ended up buying ClearNav. The price was not much of consideration. I watched a couple of videos of the Butterfly variometer in real flight situation and the VAM and the variometer indications hardly ever agreed. This was very confusing. Instead of feeling air pilot would spend more time with eyes in the cockpit watching not one but two indicators and get confused by conflicting information. What sense does it make to increase the workload?







The VAM is not used to filter out gusts probably because no one can figure out the algorithm to do so considering what seems often as conflicting information.







I think the LX, ClearNav and Butterfly as variometers come very close the rest seems just like options on a well equipped car.







I only wish ClearNav sound to be nicer. The sound award goes to Butterfly and LX. ClearNav are you listening? We want nicer sounding variometer.







Due to sound of ClearNav vario if I were to choose again I would have gone with LX.



There are many settings on both the vario and VAM filtering. Watching a short video will not give you much of a feel of the capability of these features, as it might in an older, simpler instrument. For example the VAM can be set up as derived from completely barographic information (like traditional netto) in which case it will track the vario needle quite well - and any additional information be effectively discarded. Set up the way I have it, the VAM and vario sometimes don't agree, and I cannot understand why. Much of the time though, when they don't agree it makes perfect sense. In straight flight it pretty much always makes sense, so like others I use the VAM rather than vario for target speed in cruise making it less likely you are chasing gusts instead of rising or sinking air.

In my opinion a variometer to be useful needs reduce pilot's workload. If I have to interpret the two indicators I would rather use my own sensor (the rear end). Maybe there is value in Butterfly variometer it is just not immediately obvious or helpful out of the box.

You can also get the voice alerts by installing the TR-DVS (http://www.triadis.ch/index.php?TR-DVS) which has been available since many years for about 430$. Judging from the sound samples in youtube videos from Butterfly, the software generating the sound alerts is the same. Not surprisingly, because the company which made the TR-DVS is also involved in the Butterfly vario.

El martes, 27 de agosto de 2013 20:59:06 UTC-4, escribió:
Hello

The Butterfly vario was advertise has a revolution, well almost, on the market.

Is there any pilots using the Butterfly vario who care to comment on the advantages,if any, of this instrument? I am serously interested in acquiring

one but it as to be better than my LX 7000.

Thanks for your input.

Gilles

Hi
Not many comment on the variometer itself.
Is it a better variometer in difficult broken lift, hard to center thermal?
The zillion function can be found on many instrument it is a matter of taste.
Gilles

On Wednesday, 28 August 2013 18:13:51 UTC+3, wrote:
El martes, 27 de agosto de 2013 20:59:06 UTC-4, escribió:

Hello



The Butterfly vario was advertise has a revolution, well almost, on the market.



Is there any pilots using the Butterfly vario who care to comment on the advantages,if any, of this instrument? I am serously interested in acquiring



one but it as to be better than my LX 7000.



Thanks for your input.



Gilles



Hi

Not many comment on the variometer itself.

Is it a better variometer in difficult broken lift, hard to center thermal?

The zillion function can be found on many instrument it is a matter of taste.

Gilles

Butterfly TE-variometer is on a same level as best current varios (IMHO Zander 940/ZS1). You really can't develop TE pressure vario any better because TE pressure doesn't give you a very comprehensive picture of airmass. The VAM vario is something others don't have, and I think it is worth the premium. I look at VAM ball almost exclusively during glides.

BF vario is expensive, but you get 100% what you pay for. Display, build quality and support are first class. I think some of the bugs in software should have been fixed before release, but they have send new software versions very quickly.

krasw

The Butterfly is the most contemporary looking vario I've flown with. All others look quite "old fashioned" after using it.
The multiple "pointers" displayed give a pretty complete analysis of the airmass at a glance. The wind calculation is the smoothest I've ever seen. It works very well in weak lift. I did not get to fly it in choppy lift.
However, Marc from Butterfly told me that the FLARM warnings in the vario do not cover the full range of warnings that the FLARM display does. Besides this I believe it does not automatically switch to the radar screen if there is a warning. They do not recommend it as the primary FLARM display.
Jim

On Wednesday, August 28, 2013 5:07:31 PM UTC-7, JS wrote:
The Butterfly is the most contemporary looking vario I've flown with. All others look quite "old fashioned" after using it.

The multiple "pointers" displayed give a pretty complete analysis of the airmass at a glance. The wind calculation is the smoothest I've ever seen.. It works very well in weak lift. I did not get to fly it in choppy lift.

However, Marc from Butterfly told me that the FLARM warnings in the vario do not cover the full range of warnings that the FLARM display does. Besides this I believe it does not automatically switch to the radar screen if there is a warning. They do not recommend it as the primary FLARM display.

Jim

You are correct, it does not switch to the Flarm display by itself under any circumstances. You must manually change to that screen using the select knob. There are no warning type displays on the screen, it just shows the radar display with any detected glider or ADS-B traffic. It appears to me that the "RX" icon will light on receiving a Mode C transponder, but that is the only indication. The voice warnings happen over everything though (but again no PCAS).

And yes the display is spectacular compared to any others I have seen. Makes all the others look like "steam gages". But: the V7 does show Flarm warnings......

On Tuesday, August 27, 2013 4:59:06 PM UTC-8, wrote:
Hello The Butterfly vario was advertise has a revolution, well almost, on the market. Is there any pilots using the Butterfly vario who care to comment on the advantages,if any, of this instrument? I am serously interested in acquiring one but it as to be better than my LX 7000. Thanks for your input. Gilles

I have two of these in an ASH 25. Best vario I have ever used and I date back to the days of the Schuman box. The bright display is excellent and you can set it for a fast response rate without the audio becomig irritating. The audio is also the most pleasant I have flown with. The netto ball and McCready are easy to see and the McCready is super easy to adjust. The speed command page is OK but no big improvment over my SN10. It is also a complete navigation and final glide computer, but these features are not as convenient as with the big moving map displays. At this time you cannot enter a competition type task on the instrument, but I understand that is in the works. My Inertial sensor unit was defective and has been just been replaced and not flown. When it was working the real time wind information was bad ass. I could see a rapid shift of direction as I dropped through the normal shear from west to north at my home field, also I could map the winds on opposing sides of a convergence line. I suspect it might be helpfull when ridge soaring, although I have not tried that. I am not convinced that the vertical air mass/inertial information is of much help. I may learn to utilize it eventually. The artificial horizon is very cool and comforting, although will probably never be used. I see this instrument combined with a big moving map instrument such as LX9000, Clear Nav, or Ultimate as being the best setup possible today. The Butterfly being a great vario while providing redundancy for the navigation and final glide computers. I don't see much use for the Flarm page unless they make it appear automatically when traffic is near. The voice (bitching Betty) is not of much use to me because if I set it loud enough for me to hear, when flying,it is garbled. I am deaf as a post,however, as I think many of us are. I have found that installing an external speaker on the Flarm and using the Flarm displays is better.. It is also a easy to use approved flight recorder.

On Thursday, August 29, 2013 5:21:47 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Tuesday, August 27, 2013 4:59:06 PM UTC-8, wrote:

Hello The Butterfly vario was advertise has a revolution, well almost, on the market. Is there any pilots using the Butterfly vario who care to comment on the advantages,if any, of this instrument? I am serously interested in acquiring one but it as to be better than my LX 7000. Thanks for your input. Gilles



I have two of these in an ASH 25. Best vario I have ever used and I date back to the days of the Schuman box. The bright display is excellent and you can set it for a fast response rate without the audio becomig irritating. The audio is also the most pleasant I have flown with. The netto ball and McCready are easy to see and the McCready is super easy to adjust. The speed command page is OK but no big improvment over my SN10. It is also a complete navigation and final glide computer, but these features are not as convenient as with the big moving map displays. At this time you cannot enter a competition type task on the instrument, but I understand that is in the works. My Inertial sensor unit was defective and has been just been replaced and not flown. When it was working the real time wind information was bad ass. I could see a rapid shift of direction as I dropped through the normal shear from west to north at my home field, also I could map the winds on opposing sides of a convergence line. I suspect it might be helpfull when ridge soaring, although I have not tried that. I am not convinced that the vertical air mass/inertial information is of much help. I may learn to utilize it eventually. The artificial horizon is very cool and comforting, although will probably never be used. I see this instrument combined with a big moving map instrument such as LX9000, Clear Nav, or Ultimate as being the best setup possible today. The Butterfly being a great vario while providing redundancy for the navigation and final glide computers. I don't see much use for the Flarm page unless they make it appear automatically when traffic is near. The voice (bitching Betty) is not of much use to me because if I set it loud enough for me to hear, when flying,it is garbled. I am deaf as a post,however, as I think many of us are. I have found that installing an external speaker on the Flarm and using the Flarm displays is better. It is also a easy to use approved flight recorder.

To this I would only add that the VAM has several filters which change its behavior quite a lot. It may take some experimentation with those to get useful information.

I had to change out the speaker to get the Bitchen' Betty to sound good when she was all turned up. The audio quality is good, but requires a better speaker than is typically installed for vario beeps, and maybe a better one than is shipped with it. But I am not deaf as a post yet.

jfitch wrote, On 8/29/2013 5:46 PM:
On Thursday, August 29, 2013 5:21:47 PM UTC-7,

I see this instrument combined with a big moving map
instrument such as LX9000, Clear Nav, or Ultimate as being the best
setup possible today. The Butterfly being a great vario while
providing redundancy for the navigation and final glide computers.
I don't see much use for the Flarm page unless they make it appear
automatically when traffic is near. The voice (bitching Betty) is
not of much use to me because if I set it loud enough for me to
hear, when flying,it is garbled. I am deaf as a post,however, as I
think many of us are. I have found that installing an external
speaker on the Flarm and using the Flarm displays is better. It is
also a easy to use approved flight recorder.

To this I would only add that the VAM has several filters which
change its behavior quite a lot. It may take some experimentation
with those to get useful information.

I had to change out the speaker to get the Bitchen' Betty to sound
good when she was all turned up. The audio quality is good, but
requires a better speaker than is typically installed for vario
beeps, and maybe a better one than is shipped with it. But I am not
deaf as a post yet.

I have ClearNav with a 302. I'm considering replacing the 302 with a
Butterfly or ClearNav vario for next season. Has anyone compared the
varios when connected to a ClearNav?

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Feb/2010" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm
http://tinyurl.com/yb3xywl

On Thursday, August 29, 2013 7:18:54 PM UTC-7, Eric Greenwell wrote:
jfitch wrote, On 8/29/2013 5:46 PM:

On Thursday, August 29, 2013 5:21:47 PM UTC-7,



I see this instrument combined with a big moving map

instrument such as LX9000, Clear Nav, or Ultimate as being the best

setup possible today. The Butterfly being a great vario while

providing redundancy for the navigation and final glide computers.

I don't see much use for the Flarm page unless they make it appear

automatically when traffic is near. The voice (bitching Betty) is

not of much use to me because if I set it loud enough for me to

hear, when flying,it is garbled. I am deaf as a post,however, as I

think many of us are. I have found that installing an external

speaker on the Flarm and using the Flarm displays is better. It is

also a easy to use approved flight recorder.



To this I would only add that the VAM has several filters which

change its behavior quite a lot. It may take some experimentation

with those to get useful information.



I had to change out the speaker to get the Bitchen' Betty to sound

good when she was all turned up. The audio quality is good, but

requires a better speaker than is typically installed for vario

beeps, and maybe a better one than is shipped with it. But I am not

deaf as a post yet.



I have ClearNav with a 302. I'm considering replacing the 302 with a

Butterfly or ClearNav vario for next season. Has anyone compared the

varios when connected to a ClearNav?



--

Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to

email me)

- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Feb/2010" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm

http://tinyurl.com/yb3xywl

Eric - since the RS232 output from the Butterfly emulates either an LX1600 or CAI302 vario, I don't think you will see much difference on any PDA software that connects that way, with the exception that the wind will be much more up to date (if the PDA software in question uses the wind value in the NMEA sentences received). Another consideration is that the NMEA interface is fixed at 38K baud, while the CAI 302 is effectively fixed at 4800 baud, so the PDA software must be configurable enough to receive it. The Butterfly also does not seem to do the initial handshaking that the CAI302 expects (to turn on the data port), it just begins to broadcast as soon as it is booted. This cause some initial problems for me with some software, solved by running everything in the LX mode.

For my money, the Clearnav vario is a boring instrument compared to the Butterfly, looking distinctly 20th century. It virtues seem to be that it is cheaper, simpler, and no doubt well integrated with the Clearnav. And there are those who will say that, being built in the USA, if you are in the USA service is closer and quicker should it ever be needed.