Debunking Glider Spoiler Turns Causing Spin Thinking

I've never heard of this. YGTBSM!
17 years flying gliders, 12 years as an instructor, moving the spoliers at will, turns or no turns, no problems.

I've never read anything in any glider flying manual, FAA handbook, or aerodynamic study.
Better warn the airlines, no spoiler actuation during turns!

I love to do a flight review with some of those pilots and watch them when I use the spoliers.
BillT

In Australia there is a definite fear of using the blue handle during turns in the pattern (circuit).
Seems unjustified to me.
Jim

"In Australia there is a definite fear of using the blue handle during turns in the pattern (circuit).
Seems unjustified to me.
Jim "

I have flown in Australia for some 15 years, instructing for the last six, yet I have never heard such nonsense. Sure if you are very slow pulling g and then open air brakes, you may have problem, but that problem stems from the slow speed.

Paul

At 08:44 02 June 2015, Paul B wrote:


"In Australia there is a definite fear of using the blue handle during
turns in the pattern (circuit).
Seems unjustified to me.
Jim "

I have flown in Australia for some 15 years, instructing for the last
six,
yet I have never heard such nonsense. Sure if you are very slow pulling g
and then open air brakes, you may have problem, but that problem stems
from
the slow speed.

Paul


I have heard of problems changing flap settings in aborted approaches ,but
I always thought the increased wing loading steadied every thing and
increased aileron response.
It is probably prudent to leave the brakes where they are during the turn,
then sort out the approach on the old "one thing at a time " theory, but I
would be reluctant to shutting the brakes for the turn then opening them
after.

I was taught to open the airbrakes to a certain point ⅓-½ at the right time in the pattern to not change the setting , unless of course necessary. If you fly a power plane, do you pump the throttle in the pattern?

Hmmm.... never heard of this either. Flying for ~40 years (in sailplanes) & a CFIG for 8 years.
Maybe the "original issue" was sailplanes that had a noticeable pitch attitude change with change in spoliers/dive brakes (add spoliers, nose pitches up, thus slower/higher AoA?). Rather than point that out, the decision was made to not use them in a turn.

Kind of like training that, "Go fast in the pattern so you don't stall/spin", rather than stall/spin training & recognition.

On Monday, June 1, 2015 at 10:12:22 PM UTC-6, Bill T wrote:
I've never heard of this. YGTBSM!
17 years flying gliders, 12 years as an instructor, moving the spoliers at will, turns or no turns, no problems.

I've never read anything in any glider flying manual, FAA handbook, or aerodynamic study.
Better warn the airlines, no spoiler actuation during turns!

I love to do a flight review with some of those pilots and watch them when I use the spoliers.
BillT

Wait and you will see. I am already starting to get pilots defending this on the comments section of the video! That's why I brought it up. Wait till Europe wakes up tomorrow, sees the video and starts commenting. Should be very interesting!

Bruno - B4

I can't remember the last time my airbrakes were closed during a final turn in a high performance glider - and I live in Europe.

Hi John,

If you're having to use the airbrakes everytime have you considered opening
up the circuit? Or is there something at Portmoak that prevents this?

I'm quite happy to use (or have my pupils use) airbrakes during final turn
if they were using them on base leg. Less happy for pupils to open them
during the turn. The final turn probably takes about 5 seconds so why not
wait 'til wings are level and the picture has stabilised before opening the
brakes. Why increase the workload for the sake of a few seconds?

KN

At 06:26 02 June 2015, wrote:
I can't remember the last time my airbrakes were closed during a final
turn
in a high performance glider - and I live in Europe.

On Tuesday, June 2, 2015 at 8:15:06 AM UTC+1, Kevin Neave wrote:
Hi John,

If you're having to use the airbrakes everytime have you considered opening
up the circuit? Or is there something at Portmoak that prevents this?

I'm quite happy to use (or have my pupils use) airbrakes during final turn
if they were using them on base leg. Less happy for pupils to open them
during the turn. The final turn probably takes about 5 seconds so why not
wait 'til wings are level and the picture has stabilised before opening the
brakes. Why increase the workload for the sake of a few seconds?

KN

I respect the standard teaching for pupils and it is a sensible approach for them and for low performance gliders and others with very powerful airbrakes - but take a look at pictures of experienced pilots in high performance gliders turning onto finals and see how many of them have the airbrakes cracked open. I am not alone. BTW I didn't say I opened them during the final turn - for me on a normal circuit pattern the height judgement and adjustment starts somewhere on the base leg. During the final turn my attention is devoted to airspeed and lookout rather than height as I have already been thinking about that. I believe that is a safer practice for me.

JG