resign commission for warrant officer questions

Sq, Grp, and Wg commanders don't usually
fly lead or be the first over the target today.

Not true.

In fact, every Grp or Wg
commander I've worked for since 1986 wasn't qualified under AF regs to fly
lead.

Hmmm, every group or wing commander I've known was a fully qualified instructor
not only capable of leading a formation or acting as a mission commander, but
capable of training others to do so.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

"BUFDRVR" wrote in message
...
Sq, Grp, and Wg commanders don't usually
fly lead or be the first over the target today.

Not true.

In fact, every Grp or Wg
commander I've worked for since 1986 wasn't qualified under AF regs to
fly
lead.

Hmmm, every group or wing commander I've known was a fully qualified
instructor
not only capable of leading a formation or acting as a mission commander,
but
capable of training others to do so.

Then we've been in different "real Air Forces".

Ragnar wrote:

Then we've been in different "real Air Forces".

I'm puzzled. Granted, I'm relatively "new" in the big scheme of things, but I
can recall squadron, group and yes wing commanders leading flights in nearly
every conflict since the birth of an independant Air Force. LeMay, as Group
commander led his group in its part in the Scweinfurt-Regensberg mission, so it
appears senior leaders have been leading combat strikes since at least WWII.
Billy Mitchell flew in the St. Mihel offensive, and he was the second ranking
U.S. aviator in France. I'm not doubting your experience, just curious as to
what time period we're comparing here?


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

Subject: resign commission for warrant officer questions
From: (BUFDRVR)
Date: 6/18/04 7:04 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

Sq, Grp, and Wg commanders don't usually
fly lead or be the first over the target today.

Not true.

In fact, every Grp or Wg
commander I've worked for since 1986 wasn't qualified under AF regs to fly
lead.

Hmmm, every group or wing commander I've known was a fully qualified
instructor
not only capable of leading a formation or acting as a mission commander, but
capable of training others to do so.


BUFDRVR


As anyone who has flown in an active combat group knows all too well.

Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

In message , ArtKramr
writes

snip

If you resign your commission you will never be a squadron commander, or a
group commander or a wing commander. You will never fly lead and have the
thrill of being the first over the target or the first to hit the enemy.Keep
your commission. Never throw away success.

That last sentence is absolutely right. I did it once ( don't ask ) and
have regretted it for 40 years.
I can't comment on the main problem.

Mike
--
M.J.Powell

Subject: resign commission for warrant officer questions
From: "M. J. Powell"
Date: 6/18/04 3:27 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

In message , ArtKramr
writes

snip

If you resign your commission you will never be a squadron commander, or a
group commander or a wing commander. You will never fly lead and have the
thrill of being the first over the target or the first to hit the enemy.Keep
your commission. Never throw away success.

That last sentence is absolutely right. I did it once ( don't ask ) and
have regretted it for 40 years.
I can't comment on the main problem.

Mike
--
M.J.Powell


And you are not dead yet. You may have another 30 or more years to keep
regretting it.

Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

In article ,
on 18 Jun 2004 04:11:27 GMT,
ArtKramr attempted to say .....

Subject: resign commission for warrant officer questions
From: (1LT 15B in AH-64D)
Date: 6/17/04 4:01 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

I am a 1LT in the Army National Guard, an Aviator, and I would like to
go on active duty. I have done some research and my options are to
apply to the Active Guard and Reserve or enter as a warrant. I have
been surrounded by warrants and I like them and there responsibilities
are real important and it would be a great honor to be counted in
their ranks. I cannot find out if I have to go to WOC school or not.
I have been to Federal OCS at Benning and a Federal Law Enforcement
Academy. I am interested in finding out if I have to attend yet
another candidate school. I hear it both ways but no AR has been
pointed out that states the facts definitively. Thanks for your help.



If you resign your commission you will never be a squadron commander, or a
group commander or a wing commander. You will never fly lead and have the
thrill of being the first over the target or the first to hit the enemy.Keep
your commission. Never throw away success.

We don't have those in Army Aviation any longer Art.

And most of the flying is done by warrants


--
When dealing with propaganda terminology one sometimes always speaks in
variable absolutes. This is not to be mistaken for an unbiased slant.

Tank Fixer wrote in message k.net...
In article ,
on 18 Jun 2004 04:11:27 GMT,
ArtKramr attempted to say .....

Subject: resign commission for warrant officer questions
From: (1LT 15B in AH-64D)
Date: 6/17/04 4:01 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

I am a 1LT in the Army National Guard, an Aviator, and I would like to
go on active duty. I have done some research and my options are to
apply to the Active Guard and Reserve or enter as a warrant. I have
been surrounded by warrants and I like them and there responsibilities
are real important and it would be a great honor to be counted in
their ranks. I cannot find out if I have to go to WOC school or not.
I have been to Federal OCS at Benning and a Federal Law Enforcement
Academy. I am interested in finding out if I have to attend yet
another candidate school. I hear it both ways but no AR has been
pointed out that states the facts definitively. Thanks for your help.




My deal is that I am in a Federal Law Enforcement Agency and I am
facing a board that is known for dropping you without a thought. It
is a spanish board and I have never spoken the language before the
academy, but I graduated so I am in better shape for this test than
the fellows that did not make it. I am just thinking about the future
permutations of my situation, including leaving this agency and going
into active duty. Warrants definitely fly the most, are the IPs
usually, the SPs almost all the time (standardization pilots, the men
that decide how something will be done if there is any disagreement)
Maintenance test pilots, and PCs usually. I used to think that a
Warrant was not given the opportunity to lead as is the Real Life
Officer, RLO, but that was an immature thought. I understand now that
it is not the rank that does a leader make, but your personal gifts
and the example of leaders that taught you. A PC is the undisputed
responsible party for the safety and success of the crew. Warrants
take command all the time, so I don't need to be an O to take care of
soldiers and to help the Army.

I will hold on to my current position, because if I am released from
duty with my current employer, my guard unit still needs to send me to
a 6 month school to get qualified in the Longbow, and by that time if
I am reinstated the hiring freeze will be off of my agency after the
new fiscal year. Plus I love my civilian/federal job and want to
stick it our first.

Something else, Warrants are usually the SPs, IPs, IEs, MPs, DES
pilots, etc, technically expert pilots in other words, because they
don't have to fly a desk as often as the planners, the real life
officers.

I think I can sense a split in this thread, between USAF and USA. I
don't think that there are very many warrants in the USAF so it
doesn't make sensein their minds to go from a LT or CPT or even MAJ to
a WO1 or WO2. In the Army we have a lot of warrants, I mean ALOT and
they are very important for advising the RLOs and helping us make the
best decisions. The fact that our aviation units are based on
platoons would indicate why USAF personnel would seem out of touch
with this subject. Army aviation seems to work alot like a regular
army unit, we just get into trucks and tanks that have a vertical lift
component. Of course the fixed wing assets we do have are pretty much
all flown by warrants too. Anyhoo, if I can pass this spanish board,
and another one 3 months down the road, then it is two more years and
I will be able to fly for this agency I am in now, and that is the
current plan.

Good luck, however it turns out!

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! weblog www.vivabush.org

In article ,
on 21 Jun 2004 21:46:37 -0700,
1LT 15B in AH-64D attempted to say .....

Tank Fixer wrote in message k.net...
In article ,
on 18 Jun 2004 04:11:27 GMT,
ArtKramr attempted to say .....

Subject: resign commission for warrant officer questions
From: (1LT 15B in AH-64D)
Date: 6/17/04 4:01 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

I am a 1LT in the Army National Guard, an Aviator, and I would like to
go on active duty. I have done some research and my options are to
apply to the Active Guard and Reserve or enter as a warrant. I have
been surrounded by warrants and I like them and there responsibilities
are real important and it would be a great honor to be counted in
their ranks. I cannot find out if I have to go to WOC school or not.
I have been to Federal OCS at Benning and a Federal Law Enforcement
Academy. I am interested in finding out if I have to attend yet
another candidate school. I hear it both ways but no AR has been
pointed out that states the facts definitively. Thanks for your help.




My deal is that I am in a Federal Law Enforcement Agency and I am
facing a board that is known for dropping you without a thought. It
is a spanish board and I have never spoken the language before the
academy, but I graduated so I am in better shape for this test than
the fellows that did not make it. I am just thinking about the future
permutations of my situation, including leaving this agency and going
into active duty. Warrants definitely fly the most, are the IPs
usually, the SPs almost all the time (standardization pilots, the men
that decide how something will be done if there is any disagreement)
Maintenance test pilots, and PCs usually. I used to think that a
Warrant was not given the opportunity to lead as is the Real Life
Officer, RLO, but that was an immature thought. I understand now that
it is not the rank that does a leader make, but your personal gifts
and the example of leaders that taught you. A PC is the undisputed
responsible party for the safety and success of the crew. Warrants
take command all the time, so I don't need to be an O to take care of
soldiers and to help the Army.

I will hold on to my current position, because if I am released from
duty with my current employer, my guard unit still needs to send me to
a 6 month school to get qualified in the Longbow, and by that time if
I am reinstated the hiring freeze will be off of my agency after the
new fiscal year. Plus I love my civilian/federal job and want to
stick it our first.

Something else, Warrants are usually the SPs, IPs, IEs, MPs, DES
pilots, etc, technically expert pilots in other words, because they
don't have to fly a desk as often as the planners, the real life
officers.

I think I can sense a split in this thread, between USAF and USA. I
don't think that there are very many warrants in the USAF so it
doesn't make sensein their minds to go from a LT or CPT or even MAJ to
a WO1 or WO2. In the Army we have a lot of warrants, I mean ALOT and
they are very important for advising the RLOs and helping us make the
best decisions. The fact that our aviation units are based on
platoons would indicate why USAF personnel would seem out of touch
with this subject. Army aviation seems to work alot like a regular
army unit, we just get into trucks and tanks that have a vertical lift
component. Of course the fixed wing assets we do have are pretty much
all flown by warrants too. Anyhoo, if I can pass this spanish board,
and another one 3 months down the road, then it is two more years and
I will be able to fly for this agency I am in now, and that is the
current plan.


I know in the maintenance community there are CWO commanding detachments, I
don't know about the aviation side of the house.

It sounds like you have a plan mapped out to handle either situation.
You might also talk to the officer recruiter for your state's National
Guard. There are some full time Guard flying spots out there...

--
When dealing with propaganda terminology one sometimes always speaks in
variable absolutes. This is not to be mistaken for an unbiased slant.