Letter to the FAA

Originally Posted by RR

Walt, your action of going to the FAA with this, is assuming that clubs and commercial operators are not interested in fixing this. As I said in a previous post, we have addressed this on two of our three towplanes. With the recent info that has surfaced in this thread, I will bring this to our board and we will try to get our L-19 converted to tost. I am sure if you could aid in bringing that info, or collecting anything that would help for the conversion, many if not all would make the same move. We did not because (I hope) we were operating on bad information that the FAA was going to stand in our way.

Do you feel that clubs and commercial operations would need to be forced to make this change, or do you think with your help, you could assist in this change? Personally I think many would do this, we have no interest in reducing safety for our towpilots. And I expect That would be true for all. Help them make the switch, it will be more effective, and quicker than government action.

RR

RR,

Actions speak louder than words. The fact that many commercial and club operations still use a system known to fail under the most dire of circumstances speaks volumes. Is it ignorance of apathy or both? I have no way of knowing what clubs and commercial operations are willing to do or reluctant to do. What I do know is I was a second or two from crashing into the ground with a student pilot not reacting and a release system not operating under conditions which as stated above is know to fail.

I am not an A&P nor am I an engineer so I'm not sure what info you are requesting to aid in your conversion BUT if it is a reluctance on the part of your board I would suggest they read the following:

Page 9, SSF, Tow Pilot Training Course (this is printed in RED)

"If at any time the nose of the tow plane is pulled uncontrollably by the glider to an dangerously high or low pitch attitude - PULL THE RELEASE.

Depending on the installation of the tow hitch, it may be possible for the release mechanism to become jammed due to the excessively high position of the glider. (American style hook)"

In addition, Advisory Circular - Date 3/3/08, AC No 43.13-2b

"When the glider on tow operates above a certain angle to the tow plane, the ring may slide upwards on the hook causing excessive load on the hook and difficulty in releasing the tow rope ring."

So, here are two admissions/acknowledgements by the SFF and the FAA that there is a problem with this system commonly used in the USA. If you are looking for something to kick start your board I would refer them to these comments.



Good luck.

Walt

Sorry Walt, my comment wasn't directed at you. It was a comment on the
lack of knowledge of math and statistics.

I'll either die today or I won't, so I guess I'll stay in bed and stay
comfortable until it happens. That 50-50 concept only works with coin
tosses, etc. and, as used, is disingenuous.

On 6/25/2017 2:09 PM, Walt Connelly wrote:
Dan Marotta;949727 Wrote:
If it was really 50-50 nobody would be flying. Did that statistic come

from MSNBC or Johnny Depp?

Actually it was in an article from Tom Knauff called "Launching
Emergencies." I read everything I can find on the subject. I saw the
humor, the tongue in cheek of what he said, did you not?

http://www.eglider.org/NewsArticles/...mergencies.htm

Walt




--
Dan, 5J

Originally Posted by Dan Marotta

Sorry Walt, my comment wasn't directed at you. It was a comment on the
lack of knowledge of math and statistics.

I'll either die today or I won't, so I guess I'll stay in bed and stay
comfortable until it happens. That 50-50 concept only works with coin
tosses, etc. and, as used, is disingenuous.

On 6/25/2017 2:09 PM, Walt Connelly wrote:
Dan Marotta;949727 Wrote:
If it was really 50-50 nobody would be flying. Did that statistic come

from MSNBC or Johnny Depp?

Actually it was in an article from Tom Knauff called "Launching
Emergencies." I read everything I can find on the subject. I saw the
humor, the tongue in cheek of what he said, did you not?

http://www.eglider.org/NewsArticles/...mergencies.htm

Walt




--
Dan, 5J

Dan,

I don't take anything personally, i am not a person.

I am all about math and science but I did see the humor in this comment and I am sure that Tom meant it that way. During the Vietnam Police Action my squadron commander once said, we might die today and then again we might not, so let's go fly the mission and see what happens. In our case the most dangerous part of flying was the take off. We were over and above maximum allowable war gross weight for our aircraft, Go AiR FORCE. The second most dangerous part was that inflight box lunch. But we still made the take off and I still ate that lunch and I survived.

Have a great day.

Walt

At 03:44 25 June 2017, wrote:
The death toll doesn't match your hyperbole

How many pilots have to die before you act, give me a number.

On Sunday, June 25, 2017 at 2:30:04 PM UTC-4, Don Johnstone wrote:
At 03:44 25 June 2017, wrote:
The death toll doesn't match your hyperbole

How many pilots have to die before you act, give me a number.

Couple of posts back I suggested several acts that are more productive than squealing to the teacher. You want a number, I'll give you an equation: When the yearly towpilot death toll = the yearly glider pilot death toll. Glider pilot lives matter too. Simple solution is to write letters demanding the FAA ban gliding. All those glider pilot's lives and by default towpilot's lives saved. Brilliant.

Originally Posted by

On Sunday, June 25, 2017 at 2:30:04 PM UTC-4, Don Johnstone wrote:
At 03:44 25 June 2017, wrote:
The death toll doesn't match your hyperbole

How many pilots have to die before you act, give me a number.

Couple of posts back I suggested several acts that are more productive than squealing to the teacher. You want a number, I'll give you an equation: When the yearly towpilot death toll = the yearly glider pilot death toll. Glider pilot lives matter too. Simple solution is to write letters demanding the FAA ban gliding. All those glider pilot's lives and by default towpilot's lives saved. Brilliant.

You are missing a point here Mr Ballou but I can't help but feel that missing the point is what you do best.

What a glider pilots does once off tow does not affect the tow pilot, what they do on tow does. Yes, gliders crash not infrequently resulting in the death of the pilot and occasionally a passenger but that is not the fault of the tow pilot, that is exclusively the fault of the glider pilot. When a tow pilot crashes as a result of a glider pilot's failure to stay in position I become concerned. When a device meant to give the tow pilot a fighting chance to survive does not work, is known to be prone to failure I take great exception. Does this not make sense to you?

If you wish to kill yourself that is your decision, fly on my friend, I shall not interfere. If you wish to kill me we will have conflict.

Walt

At 21:19 25 June 2017, wrote:
On Sunday, June 25, 2017 at 2:30:04 PM UTC-4, Don Johnstone
wrote:
At 03:44 25 June 2017, wrote:
The death toll doesn't match your hyperbole=20

How many pilots have to die before you act, give me a number.

Couple of posts back I suggested several acts that are more
productive
than=
squealing to the teacher. You want a number, I'll give you an
equation:
W=
hen the yearly towpilot death toll =3D the yearly glider pilot death
toll.
=
Glider pilot lives matter too. Simple solution is to write letters
demand=
ing the FAA ban gliding. All those glider pilot's lives and by default
tow=
pilot's lives saved. Brilliant.

That is called deflection, not an answer. How many deaths do you think
are acceptable? How many tow pilots have to die before YOU take
action? Just answer the question, it is very simple.

On Monday, June 26, 2017 at 6:00:05 PM UTC-4, Don Johnstone wrote:
At 21:19 25 June 2017, wrote:
On Sunday, June 25, 2017 at 2:30:04 PM UTC-4, Don Johnstone
wrote:
At 03:44 25 June 2017, wrote:
The death toll doesn't match your hyperbole=20

How many pilots have to die before you act, give me a number.

Couple of posts back I suggested several acts that are more
productive
than=
squealing to the teacher. You want a number, I'll give you an
equation:
W=
hen the yearly towpilot death toll =3D the yearly glider pilot death
toll.
=
Glider pilot lives matter too. Simple solution is to write letters
demand=
ing the FAA ban gliding. All those glider pilot's lives and by default
tow=
pilot's lives saved. Brilliant.

That is called deflection, not an answer. How many deaths do you think
are acceptable? How many tow pilots have to die before YOU take
action? Just answer the question, it is very simple.
And the premise that if we fix this one thing at any cost then flying will be safe is ludicrous. As is the premise that Schweizer hooks are a killing machine. The current rate is acceptable. If you aren't OK with a mechanical device failing and killing a pilot once every twenty years you shouldn't be flying in general aviation aircraft.