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#51
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ASW27B prices falling
I remember -24 winglets testing many years ago at HHSC.
Yes, winglets (correct ones for conditions) makes a ASW a totally different glider. Unless worlds, most performance gain is the nut behind the stick. Old rule was, "40hrs in the raced glider before first contest day that season" so the basics of flying were automatic. |
#52
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ASW27B prices falling
There will surely be 15m tips for the V3. 15M tips are a very expensive option. 15 years ago for a V2C, the 15M tips were upwards of $7000 USD. Certainly more now. So, you pay out the nose to get the outstanding performance of an 18M glider, then you pay even more to be able to fly it in a lower performance configuration. Makes no sense. I wonder what % of 15/18M ships are sold with the 15M tip options. |
#53
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ASW27B prices falling
On Tuesday, August 15, 2017 at 11:13:57 AM UTC-7, wrote:
There will surely be 15m tips for the V3. 15M tips are a very expensive option. 15 years ago for a V2C, the 15M tips were upwards of $7000 USD. Certainly more now. So, you pay out the nose to get the outstanding performance of an 18M glider, then you pay even more to be able to fly it in a lower performance configuration. Makes no sense. I wonder what % of 15/18M ships are sold with the 15M tip options. In 2015 15 meter tips for an ASG-29 were about 7,500 Euro. It makes plenty of sense if it fits your flying. If you want to compete in both 15 and 18 meter contests, resale value, all your friends have 15 meter gliders and you like to fly with them.... etc. Two gliders for almost the price of one. I do know several 29E owners who did not get the 15 meter tips and I even know one pilot with a 29 who did not order the 18 meter tips. What makes no sense to you might make plenty of sense to someone else. |
#54
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ASW27B prices falling
On Tuesday, August 15, 2017 at 2:45:40 PM UTC-6, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
On Tuesday, August 15, 2017 at 11:13:57 AM UTC-7, wrote: There will surely be 15m tips for the V3. 15M tips are a very expensive option. 15 years ago for a V2C, the 15M tips were upwards of $7000 USD. Certainly more now. So, you pay out the nose to get the outstanding performance of an 18M glider, then you pay even more to be able to fly it in a lower performance configuration. Makes no sense. I wonder what % of 15/18M ships are sold with the 15M tip options. In 2015 15 meter tips for an ASG-29 were about 7,500 Euro. It makes plenty of sense if it fits your flying. If you want to compete in both 15 and 18 meter contests, resale value, all your friends have 15 meter gliders and you like to fly with them.... etc. Two gliders for almost the price of one.. I do know several 29E owners who did not get the 15 meter tips and I even know one pilot with a 29 who did not order the 18 meter tips. What makes no sense to you might make plenty of sense to someone else. Well, my ASG 29 wing was made as a 18 Meter wing then cut into a inter and outer panel. I watched as I was their! Also, I saw the 15 meter molds appear as they were finished many years ago. My price for the 15 Meter tips in 2006 was $6,000 USD. Since the 18 meter outer panels come from when the wing is cut, I guess you could tell them to toss them, but that may be the dumbest thing I have ever heard, but this is RAS! Best. #711. |
#55
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ASW27B prices falling
On Tuesday, August 15, 2017 at 3:15:51 PM UTC-7, Tom Kelley #711 wrote:
Well, my ASG 29 wing was made as a 18 Meter wing then cut into a inter and outer panel. I watched as I was their! Also, I saw the 15 meter molds appear as they were finished many years ago. My price for the 15 Meter tips in 2006 was $6,000 USD. Since the 18 meter outer panels come from when the wing is cut, I guess you could tell them to toss them, but that may be the dumbest thing I have ever heard, but this is RAS! Best. #711. Perhaps I made an unfounded assumption, I know one ASG-29 who only has the 15 meter tips, met him at Nephi this year. I was under the assumption he purchased it new as he said it never had the 18 meter tips. |
#56
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ASW27B prices falling
I got my 15M tips after the fact, and I think everything (tips, trailer wingtip holders, installation) cost close to $10K. Was it worth it? It opens up 15M competitions and it also makes it more "sporting" to fly with all of my span-challenged friends. This year, I've got more flights in 15M than 18M.
P3 On Tuesday, August 15, 2017 at 4:45:40 PM UTC-4, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote: On Tuesday, August 15, 2017 at 11:13:57 AM UTC-7, wrote: There will surely be 15m tips for the V3. 15M tips are a very expensive option. 15 years ago for a V2C, the 15M tips were upwards of $7000 USD. Certainly more now. So, you pay out the nose to get the outstanding performance of an 18M glider, then you pay even more to be able to fly it in a lower performance configuration. Makes no sense. I wonder what % of 15/18M ships are sold with the 15M tip options. In 2015 15 meter tips for an ASG-29 were about 7,500 Euro. It makes plenty of sense if it fits your flying. If you want to compete in both 15 and 18 meter contests, resale value, all your friends have 15 meter gliders and you like to fly with them.... etc. Two gliders for almost the price of one.. I do know several 29E owners who did not get the 15 meter tips and I even know one pilot with a 29 who did not order the 18 meter tips. What makes no sense to you might make plenty of sense to someone else. |
#57
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ASW27B prices falling
One more factor: peer pressure. P3 knows we won't fly with him unless he rigs the 15M tips. That option is worth it to him.
To some, $10K for an extra set of wingtips is almost incomprehensible when you can buy a glider for less than that. Some people think a Mercedes Benz is a great value. Others can't afford one.. Neither view is wrong. There are just a lot more in the latter category than the former. Fortunately, the huge automotive market means there are a lot of very nicely designed and built new cars with advanced engineering and performance at those lower price points. Such is not the case with soaring where manufacturers target their efforts at the high end. Still, I'm past thinking that new, well-performing gliders at much lower prices would suddenly unlock pent up demand and set off huge growth in soaring. Chip Bearden |
#58
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ASW27B prices falling
I don't know whether it's true that 27 prices are falling in the UK. However,if it was true it would have a lot to do with engines. Most of those who can afford a glider with an engine want one. Of the 12 newest gliders at our club (of which 7 are ASG 29s) all but one have engines. This polarises the glider market between new gliders with engines and older cheaper aircraft..
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#59
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ASW27B prices falling
I think historically glider prices have been extremely stable, you basically get your original investment back when selling (minus inflation). I just selled my glider after 10 years of use with same price as a paid for it, and bought another one for the same price original owner paid 10 years ago.
Glider popularity topped at early 90's, since then number of pilots have dropped significantly. And even them market of used gliders have been remarkably solid. Maybe during last decade or so price of some pure gliders has dropped a bit, especially if glider has no engine or does not have particularly good price/performance ratio, and ASW27 most certainly has neither of these qualities. Nothing to worry about, just drop your price a bit. |
#60
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ASW27B prices falling
On Wednesday, August 16, 2017 at 9:14:28 AM UTC-4, krasw wrote:
I think historically glider prices have been extremely stable, you basically get your original investment back when selling (minus inflation). I just selled my glider after 10 years of use with same price as a paid for it, and bought another one for the same price original owner paid 10 years ago. Glider popularity topped at early 90's, since then number of pilots have dropped significantly. And even them market of used gliders have been remarkably solid. Maybe during last decade or so price of some pure gliders has dropped a bit, especially if glider has no engine or does not have particularly good price/performance ratio, and ASW27 most certainly has neither of these qualities. Nothing to worry about, just drop your price a bit. I sold my '27 after 17 years of fun for almost exactly what I had in it(made a couple thousand). That, and $50,000 moved me to the next step('29). I got a really nice glider, about 4% more performance, 40% higher insurance, and heavier wings to rig. 27's are one of the great sailplanes we have and are a very good value, relative to the fleet. Anybody that thinks they can buy a '27 cheap enough to pay for the coming refinish is kidding themselves. You can realize about 1/2 the cost of a good refinish in market value. The rest comes down to what the market will pay. I note that there is one '27 for sale on the German website and it is at a bit over $80k USD. FWIW UH |
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