Trig TT21 + TN72 TABS ADS-B Out Install working great....

On Sunday, February 11, 2018 at 4:35:10 PM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:
My ClearNav II displays ADS-B In targets generated by my PowerFlarm
portable unit.

A question for Darryl (or a general whine):Â* My Stemme is exempt from
the ADS-B requirement as a glider but, since it's a certificated
aircraft, I probably can't use the TN-72 GPS with my TT22 transponder.Â*
Is there any chance of such a system being installed in a certificated
glider?

Dan

On 2/11/2018 5:01 PM, son_of_flubber wrote:
On Sunday, February 11, 2018 at 6:04:37 PM UTC-5, Darryl Ramm wrote:
I just helped set up the Ramy Yanetz ASG29's TRIG TT21 transponder with a TN72 GPS Source to use as a TABS ADS-B out system. That along with PowerFLARM in his glider makes for a pretty capable overall traffic awareness/collision avoidance system.
So Ramy is using the PowerFlarm for ADS-B In? What display? Is it linked to a moving map? Any significant limitations to that configuration?

--
Dan, 5J

Dan

You can use the TN72 with any Trig Transponder in your type certificated glider... but only as a TABS ADS-B Out setup... which means in practice you get all the benefits of ADS-B Out... except you can't use that to meet any 2020 ADS-B Out flight requirements... e.g. you could not say fly in Class A, B or C airspace, etc. with your glider after January 1, 2020 with a TABS ADS-B setup. But as for use in advertising your position to ADS-B In equipped aircraft and ATC, and making you an ADS-B client aircraft (if say you want to get TIS-B services to a Stratus/Stratux box)... that all works great just doing TABS.

If you want to operate your Stemme after January 1 2020 in areas that require ADS-B Out for gliders then you would need a "2020 compliant" install, which with a Trig transponder would normally use a TN70 TSO-C145c GPS Source. (And in this case the TSO is important... and the silliness is if this was an experimental glider you could actually use the TN72 for a 2020 compliant install). Having fun yet?

And yes you have a right to whine. ADS-B is a painful unfortunate confusing mess. But I can't even play the piano so don't shoot me :-)

Darryl

On Sunday, February 11, 2018 at 4:01:58 PM UTC-8, son_of_flubber wrote:
On Sunday, February 11, 2018 at 6:04:37 PM UTC-5, Darryl Ramm wrote:
I just helped set up the Ramy Yanetz ASG29's TRIG TT21 transponder with a TN72 GPS Source to use as a TABS ADS-B out system. That along with PowerFLARM in his glider makes for a pretty capable overall traffic awareness/collision avoidance system.

So Ramy is using the PowerFlarm for ADS-B In? What display? Is it linked to a moving map? Any significant limitations to that configuration?

(sorry if we get repeat replies here, Google groups seems to be having problems with my replies)

This ASG29 has a LX9000 display and the setup with his PowerFLARM has not changed... it receives 1090ES In like all most of the PowerFLARM sold in the USA and displays that on the LX9000 just as it had previously. All that was done recently was send the TT21 in for a firmware update (required for TABS/ADS-B Out) and have the TN72 connected and the half dozen or so software settings twiddled in the TT21 to set it up for TABS.

And as I have warned about before on r.a.s. ... PowerFLARM does not decode ADS-R or TIS-B and having 1090ES Out/TABS does not change anything here. But with so much traffic being 1090ES Out you at least see that... and like today... all the traffic anywhere near the area was 1090ES Out (I have a dual-link receiver and was watching for that). But now Ramy's glider has 1090ES Out and is visible to other aircraft via 1090ES direct, and possibly ADS-R to suitably equipped UAT client aircraft, and via ADS-B to ATC. BTW since I've also been saying this at some recent talks/seminars I'll say it here as well... the good folks at FLARM are well aware of lack of ADS-R and TIS-B support with PowerFLARM. I have hope there will be a solution there in future.

It was a just-do-it choice for me when Darryl explained all the ins and outs a few months ago. I truly don't want to get run over by a putt-putt especially now as more and more power pilots will have their nose down playing with new electronic toys. For an incremental $350, it's really a no-brainer and it's not a difficult install. Thank you Darryl for all the great information and explanations on this forum. Richard was quite helpful for me as well.

And again just an reminder, the TN72 is a ~$350 (+ GPS antenna + install costs) GPS Source that can easily be added to any Trig transponder to deliver ADS-B Out in your glider. (If you need full 2020 Compliant ADS-B Out it's a little more involved). This is low-enough cost that it will likely be a "just do it" choice for owners who already have a Trig transponder, and who especially want to provide more visibility to GA traffic (and it makes your glider visible to PowerFLARM buddies at much longer distances).

On Sunday, February 11, 2018 at 4:04:37 PM UTC-7, Darryl Ramm wrote:
I just helped set up the Ramy Yanetz ASG29's TRIG TT21 transponder with a TN72 GPS Source to use as a TABS ADS-B out system. That along with PowerFLARM in his glider makes for a pretty capable overall traffic awareness/collision avoidance system.

Here is a screenshot of my portable Stratux ADS-B receiver (as would be used in many GA aircraft) receiving the ADS-B signal from the TT21 over 20 nautical miles away. Yes, it's a wave day out at Williams.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Kik...SlslyEyMPo62Mu

And again just an reminder, the TN72 is a ~$350 (+ GPS antenna + install costs) GPS Source that can easily be added to any Trig transponder to deliver ADS-B Out in your glider. (If you need full 2020 Compliant ADS-B Out it's a little more involved). This is low-enough cost that it will likely be a "just do it" choice for owners who already have a Trig transponder, and who especially want to provide more visibility to GA traffic (and it makes your glider visible to PowerFLARM buddies at much longer distances).

So how much of a hassle was it to update the XPDR and head on the TT21? My stuff is buried in the mess of other stuff under my glare shield. Can a local Trig dealer do it or does it have to go to Micro Air in Kansas?

On Monday, February 12, 2018 at 8:00:49 AM UTC-8, Bob Caldwell (BC) wrote:
On Sunday, February 11, 2018 at 4:04:37 PM UTC-7, Darryl Ramm wrote:
I just helped set up the Ramy Yanetz ASG29's TRIG TT21 transponder with a TN72 GPS Source to use as a TABS ADS-B out system. That along with PowerFLARM in his glider makes for a pretty capable overall traffic awareness/collision avoidance system.

Here is a screenshot of my portable Stratux ADS-B receiver (as would be used in many GA aircraft) receiving the ADS-B signal from the TT21 over 20 nautical miles away. Yes, it's a wave day out at Williams.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Kik...SlslyEyMPo62Mu

And again just an reminder, the TN72 is a ~$350 (+ GPS antenna + install costs) GPS Source that can easily be added to any Trig transponder to deliver ADS-B Out in your glider. (If you need full 2020 Compliant ADS-B Out it's a little more involved). This is low-enough cost that it will likely be a "just do it" choice for owners who already have a Trig transponder, and who especially want to provide more visibility to GA traffic (and it makes your glider visible to PowerFLARM buddies at much longer distances).

So how much of a hassle was it to update the XPDR and head on the TT21? My stuff is buried in the mess of other stuff under my glare shield. Can a local Trig dealer do it or does it have to go to Micro Air in Kansas?

I think just a typo, but to be clear Microair is a different transponder manufacturer (who does not make any Transponder capable of 1090ES Out or TABS, or even basic Mode S) .

If a Trig TT21 or TT22 needs a firmware update they have to go back to MidContinent, the USA Trig service center https://www.trig-avionics.com/support/u-s/. The update is free.

For use with the TN72 a TT21 or TT22 transponders need firmware 2.12 or higher and control head firmware 1.14 or higher.

The possible need to ship hardware back to MidContinent is one reason I have been advertising for a while why it is a good idea to get this done over this winter. Turn around there may only be a few days, call them and check.

On Monday, February 12, 2018 at 8:00:49 AM UTC-8, Bob Caldwell (BC) wrote:
On Sunday, February 11, 2018 at 4:04:37 PM UTC-7, Darryl Ramm wrote:
I just helped set up the Ramy Yanetz ASG29's TRIG TT21 transponder with a TN72 GPS Source to use as a TABS ADS-B out system. That along with PowerFLARM in his glider makes for a pretty capable overall traffic awareness/collision avoidance system.

Here is a screenshot of my portable Stratux ADS-B receiver (as would be used in many GA aircraft) receiving the ADS-B signal from the TT21 over 20 nautical miles away. Yes, it's a wave day out at Williams.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Kik...SlslyEyMPo62Mu

And again just an reminder, the TN72 is a ~$350 (+ GPS antenna + install costs) GPS Source that can easily be added to any Trig transponder to deliver ADS-B Out in your glider. (If you need full 2020 Compliant ADS-B Out it's a little more involved). This is low-enough cost that it will likely be a "just do it" choice for owners who already have a Trig transponder, and who especially want to provide more visibility to GA traffic (and it makes your glider visible to PowerFLARM buddies at much longer distances).

So how much of a hassle was it to update the XPDR and head on the TT21? My stuff is buried in the mess of other stuff under my glare shield. Can a local Trig dealer do it or does it have to go to Micro Air in Kansas?

The Company for Trig Service is Mid Continent Instruments
https://www.mcico.com/

Richard
www.craggyaero.com

On Monday, February 12, 2018 at 8:00:49 AM UTC-8, Bob Caldwell (BC) wrote:
On Sunday, February 11, 2018 at 4:04:37 PM UTC-7, Darryl Ramm wrote:
I just helped set up the Ramy Yanetz ASG29's TRIG TT21 transponder with a TN72 GPS Source to use as a TABS ADS-B out system. That along with PowerFLARM in his glider makes for a pretty capable overall traffic awareness/collision avoidance system.

Here is a screenshot of my portable Stratux ADS-B receiver (as would be used in many GA aircraft) receiving the ADS-B signal from the TT21 over 20 nautical miles away. Yes, it's a wave day out at Williams.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Kik...SlslyEyMPo62Mu

And again just an reminder, the TN72 is a ~$350 (+ GPS antenna + install costs) GPS Source that can easily be added to any Trig transponder to deliver ADS-B Out in your glider. (If you need full 2020 Compliant ADS-B Out it's a little more involved). This is low-enough cost that it will likely be a "just do it" choice for owners who already have a Trig transponder, and who especially want to provide more visibility to GA traffic (and it makes your glider visible to PowerFLARM buddies at much longer distances).

So how much of a hassle was it to update the XPDR and head on the TT21? My stuff is buried in the mess of other stuff under my glare shield. Can a local Trig dealer do it or does it have to go to Micro Air in Kansas?

The Company for Trig Service is MidContinent Instruments, they will do the free firmware update to the TT22.

https://www.mcico.com/

Please talk to the service department, I think you only need to send them the main unit.

Information about the TT22, TN72

http://www.craggyaero.com/trig.htm

Richard
www.craggyaero.com

I was asked to send both units as both need to be upgraded. Turnaround time was about 2 weeks and they only charged for shipping.

Ramy

On Monday, February 12, 2018 at 11:00:49 AM UTC-5, Bob Caldwell (BC) wrote:

So how much of a hassle was it to update the XPDR and head on the TT21? My stuff is buried in the mess of other stuff under my glare shield. Can a local Trig dealer do it or does it have to go to Micro Air in Kansas?

A local Trig dealer can do the software upgrade if they have the proper cables, equipment, time in their schedule, and expertise. But it is free + shipping + insurance from Mid Continent. I thought it was rather easy to pull the head and XPDR unit out of plane. You don't need to send them the cable.

On Monday, February 12, 2018 at 1:21:21 PM UTC-8, son_of_flubber wrote:
On Monday, February 12, 2018 at 11:00:49 AM UTC-5, Bob Caldwell (BC) wrote:

So how much of a hassle was it to update the XPDR and head on the TT21? My stuff is buried in the mess of other stuff under my glare shield. Can a local Trig dealer do it or does it have to go to Micro Air in Kansas?

A local Trig dealer can do the software upgrade if they have the proper cables, equipment, time in their schedule, and expertise. But it is free + shipping + insurance from Mid Continent. I thought it was rather easy to pull the head and XPDR unit out of plane. You don't need to send them the cable.

It will be cool if we could integrate our ADS-B data into the sailplane tracker to provide continuous real time position reporting.

Ramy