New low budget two seater

On Tuesday, June 19, 2018 at 11:25:05 PM UTC-7, John Foster wrote:
On Saturday, June 16, 2018 at 7:11:08 PM UTC-6, son_of_flubber wrote:
On Friday, June 15, 2018 at 2:48:48 PM UTC-4, Bob Kuykendall wrote:
I've just started a Facebook page to discuss and promote the idea of an open-source crowd-sourced two-seat primary trainer certified as SLSA or whatever makes it eligible for commercial ride, instruction, and rental use.. I envision something about halfway between the ASK13 and ASK21 in performance and complexity, and designed to fill in for the declining 2-33 population.

I'm not extremely optimistic about this effort, but as one of the few sailplane developers with a vested interest in the future of soaring in the US I thought I'd get the conversation going and see where it leads.

https://www.facebook.com/SoarOpenTrainer


I've not completely given up on R.A.S. just yet, so I'll ask my question here. Why would this project produce two place trainers that were less expensive than the PW-6 built in Poland? BTW, the PW-6 performance is very close to the ASK21, I assume it would have better performance than the SoarOpenTrainer.

How much does a new ready-to-fly PW-6 cost now including import duties and tariffs?

They sell for less than 70000, but you have to add cost of trailer (about 10000 for Avionic), freight over the Atlantic, and of course taxes.

On Friday, June 15, 2018 at 12:48:48 PM UTC-6, Bob Kuykendall wrote:
I've just started a Facebook page to discuss and promote the idea of an open-source crowd-sourced two-seat primary trainer certified as SLSA or whatever makes it eligible for commercial ride, instruction, and rental use. I envision something about halfway between the ASK13 and ASK21 in performance and complexity, and designed to fill in for the declining 2-33 population.

I'm not extremely optimistic about this effort, but as one of the few sailplane developers with a vested interest in the future of soaring in the US I thought I'd get the conversation going and see where it leads.

https://www.facebook.com/SoarOpenTrainer

--Bob K.

Bob, would you mind elaborating more about what exactly a "SLSA" is and how it is set up? I'm interested to learn more about this possibility.

On Monday, June 18, 2018 at 5:50:23 AM UTC-4, John Foster wrote:
On Friday, June 15, 2018 at 12:48:48 PM UTC-6, Bob Kuykendall wrote:
I've just started a Facebook page to discuss and promote the idea of an open-source crowd-sourced two-seat primary trainer certified as SLSA or whatever makes it eligible for commercial ride, instruction, and rental use. I envision something about halfway between the ASK13 and ASK21 in performance and complexity, and designed to fill in for the declining 2-33 population.

On Wednesday, June 13, 2018 at 1:35:01 AM UTC-6, Gal wrote:
Hi!
We are trying to get new two seater from various funds for our club. Most of the funds force to buy new glider.
Can you please help us a little bit with market research and suggest low budget two seater?
Thank you all!

Pardon my cynical attitude, but I don't expect this to cost any less than the older version, and in fact would be surprised if it didn't cost more. These kind of gliders need to be more affordable. /[Rant]

At 06:07 14 July 2018, John Foster wrote:
On Wednesday, June 13, 2018 at 1:35:01 AM UTC-6, Gal wrote:
Hi!
We are trying to get new two seater from various funds for our club.
Most
of the funds force to buy new glider.
Can you please help us a little bit with market research and suggest
low
budget two seater?
Thank you all!

Pardon my cynical attitude, but I don't expect this to cost any less than
the older version, and in fact would be surprised if it didn't cost more.

These kind of gliders need to be more affordable. /[Rant]


Then you find a way of producing them more affordably instead of siting on

your arse ranting. Don't think most sailplane manufacturers are making
vast profits.

American clubs need to bite the bullet and start renewing our fleet or we will continue to shrink. 100k for a glider shared across the membership and amortized isn't that much. An ASK21 is a steal compared to a c172.

On Saturday, July 14, 2018 at 2:43:06 PM UTC-6, wrote:
American clubs need to bite the bullet and start renewing our fleet or we will continue to shrink. 100k for a glider shared across the membership and amortized isn't that much. An ASK21 is a steal compared to a c172.

Its a little hard doing that when your "club" consists of 4 working stiffs, all of which don't even have the money to go out on their own and get a glider pilot's license. We're trying to get something started here in MT. And I can find a used airworthy c172 for easily as much or less than I can find a used ASK21 (which I have yet to see a used one go for anything less than $75,000).

You've certainly got a challenge with 4 members and a low population density to draw from up there. I was referring to new c172 vs. new k21 price however. Every club has its challenges, keep pushing! You'll find the right glider to get you going, but when you do, don't let your progress stop there. Too many clubs stopped advancing decades ago and now SSA membership is half of what it was when I was a kid.

On Sunday, July 15, 2018 at 12:48:07 AM UTC-5, John Foster wrote:
On Saturday, July 14, 2018 at 2:43:06 PM UTC-6, wrote:
American clubs need to bite the bullet and start renewing our fleet or we will continue to shrink. 100k for a glider shared across the membership and amortized isn't that much. An ASK21 is a steal compared to a c172.

Its a little hard doing that when your "club" consists of 4 working stiffs, all of which don't even have the money to go out on their own and get a glider pilot's license. We're trying to get something started here in MT. And I can find a used airworthy c172 for easily as much or less than I can find a used ASK21 (which I have yet to see a used one go for anything less than $75,000).

When my club, SES, started, we were launching with a car, a rope, and a pulley. I think there were around 10 members at the time. We found a Ka-8 and a Ka-7 that needed some love. Financed them at a local bank and paid interest only on the loans for a few years. I think we were paying something like $60/month for the Ka-7. Now we average around 40-50 members, 2 Ka-8's in pristine condition, a pretty good looking Ka-7, and a high(er) performance 2 seater (Scheibe SF-34), a Standard Cirrus, and a Pawnee tug. All paid for now, by the way. Regardless of what gliders you have, if they fly regularly, your club will most likely make it.

Your question is sorta like automotive performance parts......"cheap, fast, reliable....pick two".

A lot depends on your version of "low budget". Some peeps think $150K US is low budget, others cringe seeing a $20K US used price.

I have no clue, a number of thoughts presented thus far.