Another EXTREMELY low thermal save

And keep in mind that those who would further restrict/regulate general aviation and those who determine the price and availability of aircraft insurance also have access to YouTube.

On Sunday, May 26, 2019 at 4:16:06 PM UTC-4, wrote:
I’m afraid video may be making pilots take these risks.

https://youtu.be/PlXeHeR5Ma8

You all sound like a bunch of old church ladies talking about a young woman whose dress may be a little too high above the knees.

And you sound like someone who knows a lot about little old ladies, but nothing about aerodynamics or the hazards of low level thermaling.

On Sunday, 26 May 2019 21:16:06 UTC+1, wrote:
I’m afraid video may be making pilots take these risks.

https://youtu.be/PlXeHeR5Ma8

It's easy to point out all the risks, but OTOH, as anyone who has flown in the French Alps or similar mountainous areas will know, thermalling close to terrain is not uncommon in some circumstances. I've personally found myself circling within a hundred metres or so of the ground frequently. Of course there are risks, but as a pilot you need to manage them. It's important to fly accurately and to have escape options if things don't go to plan.

In this case, the terrain was flat, there was little wind (as witnessed by the lack of drift) and there was a landable field within easy reach. The pilot's flying looked very accurate and speed control was excellent. Maybe a little more lookout might have been in order, but I suspect the likelihood of conflicting traffic was very low. Overall, this isn't something you'd want to recommend to inexperienced pilots, but I don't think this guy was taking excessive risks.

While all pilots have their own "Envelopes" they can comfortably and safely fly within, thermalling at that altitude leaves minimal to no margin if something doesn't go as planned. Another complicating factor I think is the gear handle on the right side. Lowering the gear will take a momentary switching of hands on the control stick. Not a difficult task, but just an additional task to perform in a pressured situation.

At 22:42 30 May 2019, rudolph stutzmann wrote:
While all pilots have their own "Envelopes" they can comfortably and
safely=
fly within, thermalling at that altitude leaves minimal to no margin if
so=
mething doesn't go as planned. Another complicating factor I think is
the
=
gear handle on the right side. Lowering the gear will take a momentary
swi=
tching of hands on the control stick. Not a difficult task, but just an
ad=
ditional task to perform in a pressured situation.

If you don't have time to operate the landing gear, you land wheels up and
walk away.

On Thursday, May 30, 2019 at 4:39:24 PM UTC-4, Paul Kaye wrote:
On Sunday, 26 May 2019 21:16:06 UTC+1, wrote:
I’m afraid video may be making pilots take these risks.

https://youtu.be/PlXeHeR5Ma8

It's easy to point out all the risks, but OTOH, as anyone who has flown in the French Alps or similar mountainous areas will know, thermalling close to terrain is not uncommon in some circumstances. I've personally found myself circling within a hundred metres or so of the ground frequently. Of course there are risks, but as a pilot you need to manage them. It's important to fly accurately and to have escape options if things don't go to plan.

In this case, the terrain was flat, there was little wind (as witnessed by the lack of drift) and there was a landable field within easy reach. The pilot's flying looked very accurate and speed control was excellent. Maybe a little more lookout might have been in order, but I suspect the likelihood of conflicting traffic was very low. Overall, this isn't something you'd want to recommend to inexperienced pilots, but I don't think this guy was taking excessive risks.

Good Post. Totally agree with your assessment. No way I'm going to second guess this pilot. That looks like an average day in the eastern US as I scratched with my Libelle! And boy, could she scratch!

On Thursday, May 30, 2019 at 4:39:24 PM UTC-4, Paul Kaye wrote:
On Sunday, 26 May 2019 21:16:06 UTC+1, wrote:
I’m afraid video may be making pilots take these risks.

https://youtu.be/PlXeHeR5Ma8

It's easy to point out all the risks, but OTOH, as anyone who has flown in the French Alps or similar mountainous areas will know, thermalling close to terrain is not uncommon in some circumstances. I've personally found myself circling within a hundred metres or so of the ground frequently. Of course there are risks, but as a pilot you need to manage them. It's important to fly accurately and to have escape options if things don't go to plan.

In this case, the terrain was flat, there was little wind (as witnessed by the lack of drift) and there was a landable field within easy reach. The pilot's flying looked very accurate and speed control was excellent. Maybe a little more lookout might have been in order, but I suspect the likelihood of conflicting traffic was very low. Overall, this isn't something you'd want to recommend to inexperienced pilots, but I don't think this guy was taking excessive risks.



On Thursday, May 30, 2019 at 4:39:24 PM UTC-4, Paul Kaye wrote:
On Sunday, 26 May 2019 21:16:06 UTC+1, wrote:
I’m afraid video may be making pilots take these risks.

https://youtu.be/PlXeHeR5Ma8

It's easy to point out all the risks, but OTOH, as anyone who has flown in the French Alps or similar mountainous areas will know, thermalling close to terrain is not uncommon in some circumstances. I've personally found myself circling within a hundred metres or so of the ground frequently. Of course there are risks, but as a pilot you need to manage them. It's important to fly accurately and to have escape options if things don't go to plan.

In this case, the terrain was flat, there was little wind (as witnessed by the lack of drift) and there was a landable field within easy reach. The pilot's flying looked very accurate and speed control was excellent. Maybe a little more lookout might have been in order, but I suspect the likelihood of conflicting traffic was very low. Overall, this isn't something you'd want to recommend to inexperienced pilots, but I don't think this guy was taking excessive risks.

- show quoted text -
Good Post. Totally agree with your assessment. No way I'm going to second guess this pilot. That looks like an average day in the eastern US as I scratched with my Libelle! And boy, could she scratch!

On Sunday, May 26, 2019, at 4:16:06 PM UTC-4, wrote:
I’m afraid video may be making pilots take these risks.

https://youtu.be/PlXeHeR5Ma8

After looking at the video, and the ground underneath, what is the issue?

What am I thinking as he's turning? Well, what is my landing point on a base to final approach? I already have that point picked out on each turn, and it is continually changing as I move with the thermal.

It's clear; he has many landing options.

Next, how much am I going to try to stay in the air based on the bank I have to achieve? As I get lower, I think less bank angle in my turns, and speed, speed, speed. Do not get too slow! If I can't stay up because of purposely putting in less bank angle, then make my final landing because I won't try to stay in the tighter thermal. But as always, I have a point that I keep in my head that is a base to landing point that makes me think I'm at my local gliderport making an uneventful landing.

Well, this is all fine and good if my EGO doesn't overload my good sense!

Gary

"SQ"

"As I get lower, I think less bank angle in my turns"
Why do you think that less bank is safer ? You can't slow a glider so it stalls/spin at 45 degrees bank, but certainly can at a less angle.
Maybe you mean protection against gusts ?
Dan

On Tuesday, June 11, 2019 at 3:18:43 AM UTC-4, Gary Wayland wrote:
On Sunday, May 26, 2019, at 4:16:06 PM UTC-4, wrote:
I’m afraid video may be making pilots take these risks.

https://youtu.be/PlXeHeR5Ma8

After looking at the video, and the ground underneath, what is the issue?

What am I thinking as he's turning? Well, what is my landing point on a base to final approach? I already have that point picked out on each turn, and it is continually changing as I move with the thermal.

It's clear; he has many landing options.

Next, how much am I going to try to stay in the air based on the bank I have to achieve? As I get lower, I think less bank angle in my turns, and speed, speed, speed. Do not get too slow! If I can't stay up because of purposely putting in less bank angle, then make my final landing because I won't try to stay in the tighter thermal. But as always, I have a point that I keep in my head that is a base to landing point that makes me think I'm at my local gliderport making an uneventful landing.

Well, this is all fine and good if my EGO doesn't overload my good sense!

Gary

"SQ"