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#91
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ATC Handling of Low-Fuel American Flight
"Jim Macklin" wrote in message ... Maybe, how much time was available? If the AA plane was in DFW approach airspace, it was maybe 5-6 minutes out, how long would clearing all the other traffic take? Why didn't you listen to the tape? |
#92
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ATC Handling of Low-Fuel American Flight
Jim Macklin wrote:
I'm glad you're pilot's certificate made you omnipotent, I always suggested alternate course of action and asked "why?" Being sarcastic doesn't help your case. Not understanding what PIC means in an emergency doesn't help your case, either. I read on another post that the plane was 81 miles out, if so, then ATC had the time. But what are the facts, where was the plane, when was an emergency declared, when was the runway requested? When all else fails, listen to the tape. |
#93
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ATC Handling of Low-Fuel American Flight
"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote: Irrelevant. The time required to move that traffic was less than the time required for the aircraft in distress to fly downwind and land. Are you related to Norm Melick? LOL |
#94
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ATC Handling of Low-Fuel American Flight
"Jim Macklin" wrote in message ... I don't know just where the TUL-DFW emergency began, do you. That information was on the tape, why didn't you listen to it? Is it better for ATC to give the pilot what he wants or what he needs? Is it better for ATC to decide what the pilot needs or better that the pilot make that decision? |
#95
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ATC Handling of Low-Fuel American Flight
"Jim Macklin" writes:
Maybe, how much time was available? If the AA plane was in DFW approach airspace, it was maybe 5-6 minutes out, how long would clearing all the other traffic take? The time required to read a vector to each aircraft and receive the readback. "(callsign), turn to heading xxx" and "Turn to heading xxx, (callsign)" multiplied by the number of aircraft. If each instruction and readback require a total of eight seconds (and I'm being generous), and there are twenty aircraft to be moved, that's 160 seconds, or just under three minutes. In reality, of course, they won't all have to be moved, and it isn't even likely that there would be two dozen in close proximity. There are other factors that come into play, most of them reducing, not increasing the time required to move other traffic. On a busy day at Wichita, there might be three other aircraft, at DFW, it would be dozens. How long does it take? See above. It doesn't take very long. BTHOOM, but it does take some measurable time. Yes, measurable time, but not significant time. ATC has limitations, they can be UNABLE just as pilots can be unable. They are never unable to divert traffic. If they were, then many aircraft would crash each time a thunderstorm rolled over the airport or an aircraft was slow in leaving the runway. If the AA plane was over Ardmore, then DFW had plenty of time, if the AA plane was close-in, there would not be time to clear the space. There's always time to clear the space. Most of it is clear already. The only real obstacle is an aircraft on the runway, and that can be cleared in a few seconds. You seem very reluctant to accept the reality of unconditional priority for aircraft with emergencies, and very eager to postulate highly fanciful scenarios in which it would somehow be difficult to make way for an aircraft with an emergency to land on the runway of the pilot's choice. -- Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail. |
#96
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ATC Handling of Low-Fuel American Flight
"Jim Macklin" writes:
Is it better for ATC to give the pilot what he wants or what he needs? What he wants. ATC doesn't know what he needs. -- Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail. |
#97
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ATC Handling of Low-Fuel American Flight
Jim Macklin wrote:
Is it better for ATC to give the pilot what he wants or what he needs? Somewhere earlier in this thread someone said "ATC had to provide for AAL's possible go-around." (perhaps that was you?) If AAL's had a low fuel state sufficent to have declared his emergency he did not have the option to go around. If the gear or flaps did not come down, he was committed to land on the first try, no matter what. If he had fuel for a go-around it was a bogus emergency. Have you read the 1993 Avianca crash report at JFK? |
#98
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ATC Handling of Low-Fuel American Flight
Jim Macklin wrote:
From a pilot's seat for many years, at such little airports as DFW, ATL, DEN,STL, ORD, etc. Many hours in the cab and TRACON as a visitor, watching airports "turn around." It shouldn't be necessary for the airport to turn around in the case in question. The traffic just has to be moved out of the way of the emergency airplane. |
#99
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ATC Handling of Low-Fuel American Flight
"Jim Macklin" writes:
I'm glad you're pilot's certificate made you omnipotent ... That's what the term "pilot in command" is meant to convey. The PIC is omnipotent aboard his aircraft. His decision on how the aircraft is to be flown is final. -- Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail. |
#100
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ATC Handling of Low-Fuel American Flight
"Jim Macklin" writes:
Not unless you ignore all the other traffic. s/ignore/divert/ -- Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail. |
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