Airspeed of military planes

"Frijoles" wrote...

No, but the yaw indicator on the F-14 is!

I've known generally what (the string) was for a long time but never
bothered to ask when it was referenced (primarily)? High alpha stuff?
Landing pattern? Single engine would be an obvious case...anything else?
More for "departure prevention," TF 30 "management" or both?

I never flew the Turkey, but probably all of the above.

I flew gliders with them, and they replaced the turn balance ball -- "step on
the knot".

ok Jim... lets do a no flap approach...

IIRC.. I believe the airspeed and proper AoA will now be around 210..
correct..

BT
B-1 GIB

"Jim Baker" wrote in message
...
Sorry, I thought it was clear I was speaking about AoA to fly final and
land
the Bone, as you said you use in the Harrier.


"Frijoles" wrote in message
ink.net...
Good job JB, you compute an airspeed for the Bone. And so your point
is...*what* about landing the Harrier?


"Jim Baker" wrote in message
news
You're right Frijoles, in the Bone the correct answer for "What
airspeed
do
you fly on final" is "I don't know/care. I'm flying 7 AoA as required
by
the Dash One". There is however, a chart of airspeed and gross
weights
that
every pilot has and, IAW the Landing Checklist, every final must have
an
airspeed computed.

JB

"Frijoles" wrote in message
ink.net...
Nozzles aft, Harrier approach speed will be in the 155kt +/-range.
At
20
nozzles and auto flaps(normal for IFR final), you're somewhat slower
but
to
be honest I don't recall the airspeed because my primary reference
was
always AoA. Depending on the type of landing you intend to make,
once
you're in the visual environment, you transition to a higher nozzle
angle
(60-75 depending...), and in some instances, STOL flaps where the
flaps
program automatically as a function of nozzle angle. "On speed" for
a
fixed-nozzle slow landing is around 110kts. The *very* slow rolling
landings you occasionaly see are called rolling vertical landings --
60
kts
ground speed is the target but the transition to that speed will
usually
be
over the runway, not on approach final.

"Darkwing Duck" wrote in message
...

"Tetsuji Rai" wrote in message
s.com...
Airspeed limitation below 10000ft is usually 250kts unless you
have
been
authorized by the Administrator. However I guess it's a bit
slow
for
military fighters. So I am curious how fast military fighters
fly
in
the
real world. I guess it's very dangerous military aircraft fly
much
fast
among civilian planes.



So how fast is short final in a F-14 or whatever? Always wanted to
know.

Bill, as you no doubt remember, no flap approaches and landings were done at
6 AoA versus 7 AoA with flaps/slats. But the airspeeds for a no flapper
were typically about 40 knots faster than with flaps/slats. You'd try to
get down to about 20K lbs of fuel for a no flap landing which gave an
approach/landing speed of 184 KIAS for a 210K lb. airplane.

Cheers,

Jim

"BTIZ" wrote in message
news:fs0Rb.61523$zs4.18646@fed1read01...
ok Jim... lets do a no flap approach...

IIRC.. I believe the airspeed and proper AoA will now be around 210..
correct..

BT
B-1 GIB

"Jim Baker" wrote in message
...
Sorry, I thought it was clear I was speaking about AoA to fly final and
land
the Bone, as you said you use in the Harrier.


"Frijoles" wrote in message
ink.net...
Good job JB, you compute an airspeed for the Bone. And so your point
is...*what* about landing the Harrier?


"Jim Baker" wrote in message
news You're right Frijoles, in the Bone the correct answer for "What
airspeed
do
you fly on final" is "I don't know/care. I'm flying 7 AoA as
required
by
the Dash One". There is however, a chart of airspeed and gross
weights
that
every pilot has and, IAW the Landing Checklist, every final must
have
an
airspeed computed.

JB

"Frijoles" wrote in message
ink.net...
Nozzles aft, Harrier approach speed will be in the 155kt +/-range.
At
20
nozzles and auto flaps(normal for IFR final), you're somewhat
slower
but
to
be honest I don't recall the airspeed because my primary reference
was
always AoA. Depending on the type of landing you intend to make,
once
you're in the visual environment, you transition to a higher
nozzle
angle
(60-75 depending...), and in some instances, STOL flaps where the
flaps
program automatically as a function of nozzle angle. "On speed"
for
a
fixed-nozzle slow landing is around 110kts. The *very* slow
rolling
landings you occasionaly see are called rolling vertical
landings --
60
kts
ground speed is the target but the transition to that speed will
usually
be
over the runway, not on approach final.

"Darkwing Duck" wrote in message
...

"Tetsuji Rai" wrote in message
s.com...
Airspeed limitation below 10000ft is usually 250kts unless you
have
been
authorized by the Administrator. However I guess it's a bit
slow
for
military fighters. So I am curious how fast military
fighters
fly
in
the
real world. I guess it's very dangerous military aircraft
fly
much
fast
among civilian planes.



So how fast is short final in a F-14 or whatever? Always wanted
to
know.

You'd try to
get down to about 20K lbs of fuel for a no flap landing which gave an
approach/landing speed of 184 KIAS for a 210K lb. airplane.

Damn, and a 15,000'+ long runway ?


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

"BUFDRVR" wrote in message
...
You'd try to
get down to about 20K lbs of fuel for a no flap landing which gave an
approach/landing speed of 184 KIAS for a 210K lb. airplane.

Damn, and a 15,000'+ long runway ?

It's not a big deal. Very landable (no hot brakes, not heroic efforts) with
8,000 ft rwy. As a matter of fact, you can land a min weight, configured
Bone in about 3-4K feet.

JB

On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 00:53:22 GMT, "Frijoles"
wrote:

I've known generally what (the string) was for a long time but never
bothered to ask when it was referenced (primarily)? High alpha stuff?
Landing pattern? Single engine would be an obvious case...anything else?
More for "departure prevention," TF 30 "management" or both?

We had a "yaw string" on F-4s in USAF. I don't recall if there was on
for the F-105. The main purpose in operational aircraft was during
weapons deliver and the most important weapons delivery with a yaw
concern was strafe or rockets.

Any yaw at the moment of release means the sight is pointing left or
right of the flight path and the weapons will go in the direction the
aircraft has imparted, not the place that the sight tells you. Yaw
left, shoot right.



Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

On 25 Jan 2004 13:01:13 GMT, (BUFDRVR) wrote:

Boy, it's a mixture of fun and depression to talk about flying when you're not
actively doing it...

Bit like sex.


--
Steve.

Damn, and a 15,000'+ long runway ?

It's not a big deal. Very landable (no hot brakes, not heroic efforts) with
8,000 ft rwy.

Yeah, I realized that after I typed it. A 210K BUFF even without a drag chute
would only eat up about 8,000' of runway, however in a 210K BUFF, you're on
fumes!


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

Boy, it's a mixture of fun and depression to talk about flying when you're
not
actively doing it...

Bit like sex.


ROFLMAO...I could comment in any one of several ways here, but I'll choose to
bow out gracefully


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

Thanks -- had forgotten about sideslip and FF ordnance realignment with the
relative wind...

"Ed Rasimus" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 00:53:22 GMT, "Frijoles"
wrote:

I've known generally what (the string) was for a long time but never
bothered to ask when it was referenced (primarily)? High alpha stuff?
Landing pattern? Single engine would be an obvious case...anything else?
More for "departure prevention," TF 30 "management" or both?

We had a "yaw string" on F-4s in USAF. I don't recall if there was on
for the F-105. The main purpose in operational aircraft was during
weapons deliver and the most important weapons delivery with a yaw
concern was strafe or rockets.

Any yaw at the moment of release means the sight is pointing left or
right of the flight path and the weapons will go in the direction the
aircraft has imparted, not the place that the sight tells you. Yaw
left, shoot right.



Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8